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Fluid Tests Hint at Concrete Quantum Reality

171 点作者 karolisd将近 11 年前

17 条评论

GregBuchholz将近 11 年前
I&#x27;ve liked:<p>Clearing up Mysteries - The Original Goal <a href="http://bayes.wustl.edu/etj/articles/cmystery.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;bayes.wustl.edu&#x2F;etj&#x2F;articles&#x2F;cmystery.pdf</a><p>&quot; ...we must keep in mind that Einstein&#x27;s thinking is always on the ontological level; the purpose of the EPR argument was to show that the QM state vector cannot be a representation of the &quot;real physical situation&quot; of a system. Bohr had never claimed that it was, although his strange way of expressing himself often led others to think that he was claiming this.<p>From his reply to EPR, we find that Bohr&#x27;s position was like this:<p>&quot;You may decide, of your own free will, which experiment to do. If you do experiment E1 you will get result R1. If you do E2 you will get R2. Since it is fundamentally impossible to do both on the same system, and the present theory correctly predicts the results of either, how can you say that the theory is incomplete? What more can one ask of a theory?&quot;<p>While it is easy to understand and agree with this on the epistemological level, the answer that I and many others would give is that we expect a physical theory to do more than merely predict experimental results in the manner of an empirical equation; we want to come down to Einstein&#x27;s ontological level and understand what is happening when an atom emits light, when a spin enters a Stern-Gerlach magnet, etc. The Copenhagen theory, having no answer to any question of the form: &quot;What is really happening when - - - ?&quot;, forbids us to ask such questions and tries to persuade us that it is philosophically naive to want to know what is happening. But I do want to know, and I do not think this is naive; and so for me QM is not a physical theory at all, only an empty mathematical shell in which a future theory may, perhaps, be built.&quot;
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MichaelAO将近 11 年前
FAQ about Bohmian Mechanics (it&#x27;s very accessible): <a href="http://www.mathematik.uni-muenchen.de/~bohmmech/BohmHome/files/Frequently_Asked_Questions_about_Bohmian_Mechanics.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mathematik.uni-muenchen.de&#x2F;~bohmmech&#x2F;BohmHome&#x2F;fil...</a>
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spacehome将近 11 年前
Yes! But the best theory is not Copenhagen or Pilot Wave.<p>Eliezer Yudkowski has a brilliant treatise on the Many Worlds interpretation here: <a href="http://lesswrong.com/lw/r5/the_quantum_physics_sequence/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;lesswrong.com&#x2F;lw&#x2F;r5&#x2F;the_quantum_physics_sequence&#x2F;</a> that really should be required reading for anyone that wants to talk intelligently on the subject.<p>Edit: seriously, don&#x27;t even bother reading the article. It (like most science journalism) is garbage. Take the time to work through Eliezer&#x27;s sequence.
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nardi将近 11 年前
Another anti-Copenhagen argument by Carver Mead: <a href="http://www.cns.caltech.edu/people/faculty/mead/Nature_Of_Light_What_Are_Photons.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cns.caltech.edu&#x2F;people&#x2F;faculty&#x2F;mead&#x2F;Nature_Of_Lig...</a>
adocracy将近 11 年前
Liquid dynamics sounds like an interesting hypothesis, but I agree with the critics that entanglement presents a tough analogy. If Pilot Wave theory suggests that the particle-wave duality is actually two distinct actors - a wave and a particle riding the wave - then 1) each particle has an independently generated wave? and 2) it&#x27;s difficult to see how that wave could be exactly preserved for both particles over the long distances of entanglement experiments. That&#x27;s like envisioning a ripple on the far side of a large lake exactly mimicking a ripple here. Granted, the entanglement result of simultaneous collapse of probabilities is also tough to rationally understand. But Pilot Waves maintaining their effect, regardless of various asynchronous interactions encountered between the distances of entanglement experiments, seems naive. Then again, I&#x27;m not a particle physicist.
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dnautics将近 11 年前
I was under the impression that Bohmian mechanics were known to be equivalent if and only if hidden variables were strictly non-local (in the case of the macrophysical observations, the &quot;universe&quot; can for a reasonable higher-order approximation be the limits of the chamber being observed).<p>IIRC, There is also an interesting &#x27;alternative&#x27; relativity which has non-local effects and a universal frame of reference formulated by a physicist named Frank Tangherlini (I&#x27;ll be interviewing him this month). It also has weird properties like anisotropy of the vacuum speed of light!!<p>Might be interesting if Bohmian and Tangherlini mechanics provided a better mathematical rapprochement of quantum mechanics with relativity than Copenhagen&#x2F;Lorentz&#x2F;Einstein
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vitamen将近 11 年前
This sums up my thoughts exactly. The pilot-wave theory &quot;...seems to me so natural and simple, to resolve the wave-particle dilemma in such a clear and ordinary way, that it is a great mystery to me that it was so generally ignored.&quot;<p>I don&#x27;t run in experimental-physicist circles, granted, but I&#x27;ve definitely encountered countless cases of a clear, obvious, correct solution being brought up and summarily ignored for what proves to be a poor solution. The probabilistic theories have always made for good Science Fiction, but that should hardly matter.
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jamestomasino将近 11 年前
By far the most fantastic and unbelievable part of this article is the calm thoughtfulness and collaborative criticism in its comments. Thank you, OP, for sharing such a rare gem.
hcarvalhoalves将近 11 年前
I&#x27;m impressed by the probability distribution graph in the video. I would never expect the random motion to form a wave!
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bitwize将近 11 年前
Interesting. Maybe this will discourage chuckleheads and ne&#x27;er-do-wells from citing &quot;quantum physics&quot; as the justifixation for their particular variety of woo?<p>Probably not, but one can hope!
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sriku将近 11 年前
If you try to create a classical situation that obeys similar mathematics to a quantum situation, you&#x27;re bound to get &quot;quantum-like behaviour&quot; isn&#x27;t it? Wouldn&#x27;t this be some kind of an analog computer for simulating the two-slit experiment in the classical realm? If so, what would this offer to the interpretation of quantum mechanics that cannot be gleaned from the mathematics itself?
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DavidPlumpton将近 11 年前
I was unable to figure out one key thing about this article. Are they claiming that if the droplet is observed while going through one of the slits that the interference pattern will vanish? If not can we really claim a strong analogy with QM?
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pistle将近 11 年前
Excellent. Hope this gets support and more attention. I&#x27;m getting tired of explaining how hand-waving about probabilistic magic of subatomic behavior is successful guessing of reality without explaining it.
mrfusion将近 11 年前
Any ideas on how quantum computing would be explained with this model?<p>If quantum behavior is really classical like I think they&#x27;re claiming, wouldn&#x27;t that mean quantum computers wouldn&#x27;t provide any benefit?
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Estragon将近 11 年前
Are there any experiments where the pilot wave theory and the Copenhagen interpretation predict different results?
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stefantalpalaru将近 11 年前
I would not be surprised if it turns out that the Copenhagen interpretation is a modern phlogiston theory.
dang将近 11 年前
We changed the url from <a href="http://www.wired.com/2014/06/the-new-quantum-reality" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wired.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;06&#x2F;the-new-quantum-reality</a> to be the original source.
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