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Building Bigger Roads Makes Traffic Worse

212 点作者 data_scientist将近 11 年前

48 条评论

cs702将近 11 年前
In addition to the correlation found by these researchers, I suspect the Braess Paradox[1] and other complex network phenomena are also at work.<p>--<p>[1] Adding more roads to a network of roads can make traffic worse (and viceversa, closing roads can make traffic better). See <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braess&#x27;s_paradox" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Braess&#x27;s_paradox</a> or watch this friendly explanation: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiauQXIKs3U" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=ZiauQXIKs3U</a><p>--<p>Edits: moved links and parenthesis to footnote, and added &quot;In addition to the correlation found by these researchers&quot; and &quot;other complex network phenomena&quot; to make my point clearer.
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nawitus将近 11 年前
&gt;This means raising the price of driving on a road when demand is high. During rush hour, drivers would have to pay a fee to use the most congested roads.<p>Drivers already pay for the cost in lost time. It&#x27;s a &#x27;natural&#x27; market.<p>The main problem with this article is the idea that the goal in traffic policy is to reduce congenstion. No, it should be to maximize utility. Sure, if you reduce roads, add congenstion charges then people will find alternatives to cars. That doesn&#x27;t imply that utility is increased.<p>Public transportation is typically worse than using a private car. You can&#x27;t decide when to leave, you pretty much need to plan your trips around public transportation. They don&#x27;t take you directly from A to B etc. Public transportation becomes effective only when population density becomes high enough.
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baddox将近 11 年前
It&#x27;s an interesting effect, and fairly obvious once you hear the explanation the first time. This article focuses primarily on the effect that roads have on their own congestion, but I think you can do similar analysis on the effects of roads on many other things.<p>This sort of idea is discussed a lot in the libertarian community. I don&#x27;t intend to make the conversation about that; I just want to mention the ideas because they&#x27;re similar. Basically, a common and oft-parodied criticism of libertarianism is &quot;but who will build the roads,&quot; implying that massive road infrastructure is something that can only be produced by government through taxation and eminent domain.<p>One common retort by libertarians is to come up with a bunch of proposals for how private enterprise could create a very similar road system to what we have today. I think that&#x27;s the wrong approach. I&#x27;m more interested in the ways that government roads, no matter how well-intended they are, can lead to inefficiency and perverse incentives.<p>I think the biggest and easiest argument to make is an environmental one, which is somewhat ironic, considering that libertarians are generally considered (by themselves and others) as a threat to environmentalism. And yet, I wager that public road infrastructure is one of the most obvious cases where government programs lead to (probably unintended) environmental problems. The interstate highway system is a massive blow to railroads, which have a vastly smaller environmental impact than road freight. The public road funds essentially subsidize the price of fast shipping via truck. Big trucks are probably responsible for a disproportionately large portion of road wear relative to the funding of roads that they provide.<p>Another interesting effect is that urban sprawl probably wouldn&#x27;t happen without roads which are primarily produced by government. This is probably another big threat to the environment, since I would imagine that suburbs pollute much more per capita than urban areas because of the necessity to use automobiles.
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tptacek将近 11 年前
There was more or less a whole EconTalk episode about this recently; one interesting point from it was the (bad) concept of STROADs:<p><a href="http://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2013/3/4/the-stroad.html#.U7GEXI1dUWs" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.strongtowns.org&#x2F;journal&#x2F;2013&#x2F;3&#x2F;4&#x2F;the-stroad.html#...</a>
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adamgravitis将近 11 年前
Having done some grad work in this area, I&#x27;d say this is a fairly superficial take on the topic. This certainly describes <i>one</i> area on the supply&#x2F;demand curve, and perhaps even a pervasive one given that we essentially stopped building highways 40 years ago, but it&#x27;s not inherent to the problem.<p>I think it&#x27;s very possible to jump ahead of this effect, but the capital outlay would be impressive, and as a society we apparently aren&#x27;t permitted to accomplish Big Things anymore, so it&#x27;s likely we stay in this weird bit of the function for a long while.
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kenrikm将近 11 年前
I would contest that many roads are not built or expanded until they are needed and due to that the demand fills out the road on completion. If you were to take a 3 lane road that is at 70% capacity and make it 6 lanes I very highly doubt you would get a 6 lane road at 70% capacity. They reference a % thought an entire city, on a more Macro level a single bigger road can indeed ease congestion, though It may cause other roads leading into it to become congested. The only way out of the trap AFAIK would be to build excess capacity thought the entire system.
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nardi将近 11 年前
So more lanes don&#x27;t reduce congestion, but this article ignores the fact that they obviously DO increase quality of life, by giving people the freedom to live and work where they choose. We should build more lanes for that reason alone. The reason congestion doesn&#x27;t get better is simply that there is pent-up demand for driving. The solution isn&#x27;t &quot;tough luck, adjust your life to fit the traffic.&quot; It&#x27;s to build more lanes, so people can choose to live the life they want to live.
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DigitalJack将近 11 年前
I have only read the linked article, not the study, but it seems to me to be a bizarre conclusion that if capacity is increased and utilization remains at maximum, that the capacity caused the utilization.<p>It seems to be a much simpler scenario that demand far outstrips capacity, and until you can meet the demand, saturation every lane added will continue to be saturated.<p>I&#x27;m sure amdahl&#x27;s law applies to lane adding here, on top of the fact that all the highways I&#x27;ve seen merge from one side or the other. I don&#x27;t think I&#x27;ve seen any that merge in the middle, though I guess they probably exist.
tunesmith将近 11 年前
It&#x27;s interesting that they make the point that congestion pricing will induce people to take alternate routes.<p>The recent update to Google Maps seems to do the same thing. It&#x27;s much more proactive now about suggesting alternate routes. Here in Seattle, I recently bypassed I-5 by taking an astonishingly complex and twisty route that was all prompted by Google Maps, and I got to my destination five minutes sooner than Google was estimating I would had I stayed on I-5 (although that&#x27;s impossible to verify since traffic congestion changes throughout the duration of a drive).<p>All that said, while it was fun (also especially when I avoided a Tacoma I-5 snarl that I hadn&#x27;t previously known how to avoid), I don&#x27;t think we actually want to redirect highway drivers onto local streets. Local streets aren&#x27;t designed for highway overflow; they&#x27;re designed for local traffic.<p>Isn&#x27;t the real answer to design more decentralized town areas so people have less reason to drive long distances, for reasons other than recreation?
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peter_l_downs将近 11 年前
Funny to see this on the HN frontpage – the Downs who originally suggested the &quot;fundamental law of highway congestion&quot; being confirmed in the paper [0] is my grandfather. Thanks for submitting this, it&#x27;s very interesting work.<p>[0] <a href="http://www.nber.org/papers/w15376.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nber.org&#x2F;papers&#x2F;w15376.pdf</a>
DINKDINK将近 11 年前
Driverless cars have the vast vast potential to fix traffic congestion problems. Traffic mainly results from humans&#x27; inability to gauge the spacial and speed based tolerances required to prevent braking and as a result sending a backward brake wave through the cars behind it. Add to that fact that there are no game theory advantages to a single driver to driving properly (other than an altruistic realization that if you decide to drive with better tolerances and other people do the same, the congestion is abated)
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xvedejas将近 11 年前
A phenomenon very similar to &quot;induced demand&quot; was observed in 1865, when increased efficiency in coal consumption lead to increased demand for coal. It&#x27;s called Jevon&#x27;s paradox:<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevon%27s_paradox" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Jevon%27s_paradox</a>
zmmmmm将近 11 年前
Yet when I visit a small country town with a giant road through the middle, there is still no traffic there. If big roads induce traffic independent of any other factors then this should not be true - the mere presence of the big road should have created traffic.<p>While I understand there&#x27;s a really point to this paradox (it really happens), I hate the simplistic conclusion people reach that it is always wrong to make a road bigger. Sometimes <i>you really do need a bigger road</i>. Sometimes you really need more public transport or something else. It&#x27;s complicated, and we need better models of it. But reducing it to one line slogans doesn&#x27;t help that.
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duncan_bayne将近 11 年前
Counterargument here: <a href="http://pc.blogspot.com.au/2014/06/more-roads-doesnt-mean-more-traffic-jams.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;pc.blogspot.com.au&#x2F;2014&#x2F;06&#x2F;more-roads-doesnt-mean-mor...</a><p>&quot;By comparison, building expensive transit systems aimed at getting people out of their less-expensive cars generates zero economic benefits if it generates no new travel. Only new travel generates economic benefits, so people who argue that new roads induce new travel are actually arguing that new roads create economic benefits.<p>If congestion is the issue, then–as Mann briefly mentions–the solution is congestion pricing. But Mann doesn’t understand the difference between true congestion pricing and New York City’s proposal for cordon pricing. Cordon pricing is more a way of raising revenue to fund urban boondoggles than a way of relieving congestion.<p>Even UC Berkeley planning professor Robert Cervero believes that the induced demand argument is “wrong headed.” “Road investments by themselves do not increase volumes,” he writes. “Only by conferring a benefit, like faster speeds, will traffic increase.” Provided that benefit is greater than the cost–something that could be assured, Cervero says, through proper pricing of roads–then it is a good thing.&quot;
chsonnu将近 11 年前
Unused road space is staring everyone in the face and only a small percentage of commuters are using it: motorcyclists. If you just took 10% of the cars off the road and had them riding and lane splitting instead, congestion would be reduced exponentially. The good news for Californians is that lane splitting is actually legal unlike every other backwards ass state.
larrydag将近 11 年前
Dallas is building a congested demand pricing project for the I-635 corridor. They are calling it managed toll lanes. <a href="http://www.txdot.gov/business/partnerships/current-cda/635-lbj-cda.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.txdot.gov&#x2F;business&#x2F;partnerships&#x2F;current-cda&#x2F;635-l...</a>
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moron4hire将近 11 年前
I live inside the Washington D.C. beltway in Alexandria, VA. Traffic here in town is slightly better than what I had gotten used to in Philadelphia, but that&#x27;s likely because A) I never have that far to go and B) I never drive during rush hour anymore. In the District, it&#x27;s a fucking Boschian nightmare. DC typically ranks 2nd or 3rd worst traffic in the country, duking it out with LA and Miami.<p>And all around me, as I look out my windows, all I see are skycranes build condo projects.<p>On my walk to my local coffee shop, I see a political campaign poster touting the candidate will work to block some proposed parking garage project that I never understood why old people hated.<p>There is a new metro station going in less than half a mile from my place. Except it won&#x27;t be done for another 5 years or something. And really, the other nearest station is only a mile away over flat road. I don&#x27;t understand putting metro stations less than half a mile from each other. That just seems more likely to <i>cause</i> traffic than it is to alleviate it, as it increases the latency of trips.<p>There aren&#x27;t any major road projects going on. There are one or two projects to fix up a few ramps that were crumbling. There is something about an express lane all the way to the Dulles airport. But nothing about the 95 expressway seems to be addressed.<p>Clearly, someone is planning to pack a LOT more people into this area, but has given no thought whatsoever where to put their cars, either while in use or not.<p>So I&#x27;ve just accepted that this is reality now. There is absolutely no reason to complain about traffic, because nobody is doing anything meaningful about it. I try to work my life to not be involved with it at all. I do most of my shopping online. I am a freelancer who works 100% from home. I live in walking distance of a bar and a coffee shop, and I&#x27;m even cutting back how often I go. Unless I can finally convince my wife to move out of this place, I&#x27;m not traveling anywhere during daylight hours.
jrobbins将近 11 年前
I see it as basically Malthusian: people will keep driving until it is so unpleasant that they don&#x27;t want to do it any more. The tipping point for most people is around 45 minutes. Here&#x27;s a book with a footnote that mentions that the same 45-minute rule applies worldwide and though out history: <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=uuqIA-ce1CoC&amp;pg=PA408&amp;lpg=PA408&amp;dq=ancient+romans+commute+45+minutes&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=W_4--bDOo5&amp;sig=uNYXKSxadR3pUeZ3epHuKgvI0GQ&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ei=xLGxU-vIHoiTqgaUhIDYDQ&amp;ved=0CDEQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&amp;q=ancient%20romans%20commute%2045%20minutes&amp;f=false" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;books.google.com&#x2F;books?id=uuqIA-ce1CoC&amp;pg=PA408&amp;lpg=P...</a>
gweinberg将近 11 年前
Dolts like the article author completely miss the point. Yes, the number of people on the road will increase as we add lanes, but that doesn&#x27;t mean that adding more lanes is useless. More people are able to get where they want to go, that&#x27;s a good thing.
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cyphunk将近 11 年前
<p><pre><code> Finally, businesses that rely on roads will swoop into cities with many of them, bringing trucking and shipments. </code></pre> Indeed, roads are most often built to bring in new large corporations that create jobs. Depending on how one measures &quot;quality of life&quot; this could be considered a very good thing.<p>I was expecting something more interesting such as the correlation to car driver behaviour and inefficiency with stop-go traffic when not leaving a buffer in front of the next car (something that was written up very well a year or so ago) and how this logic is effected with wider roads. Instead, got some pretty worn out theories.
jusben1369将近 11 年前
I&#x27;m not sure I&#x27;m a buyer of the congestion demand pricing. There&#x27;s a very real cost already involved in traffic. Time lost in the car, quality of life, stress. Anybody who lives in the Bay Area, LA, NY, DC understand that timing your entire life around traffic is the regional pastime. So the argument then has to be an incremental one. If we then layer a more direct money tax of some kind on top of all the crap that already exists then that will be the straw that breaks the camels back and gets enough people off the road. Hmm.
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phkahler将近 11 年前
These guys are partially idiots. Obviously there is more demand than road if use is directly proportional to supply as they claim. The problem is the way we design cities and lay out the roads. A regular grid where we put STOP lights? seriously? Go, stop, go, stop. And then we put businesses right on the corners to increase congestion right where it&#x27;s already bad. When cars get tested for EPA MPG ratings, the average speed on the city drive cycle is slightly under 20mph due to all the stop and go. Hybrid cars get better city mpg than highway by using regenerative braking to recover energy from all that stopping and making drag the dominant factor. I don&#x27;t think traffic circles are relevant, but designing the layout to minimize disruptions to flow altogether. I&#x27;ve been contemplating this a lot, but can&#x27;t write it all here right now. Imagine if every drive were 10-20 percent longer distance, but you could average twice the speed over the journey! You&#x27;d save gas and time. And if your journey takes less time, that&#x27;s fewer car-minutes on the road which means less traffic and they could have fewer lanes. The problem is even if we could do the design correctly, nobody is going to build a city from scratch - except in China maybe.
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melling将近 11 年前
They&#x27;re also an eyesore.<p>Not to worry, over the next several decades large cities will build out effective mass transit systems. High-speed rail will eventually come to America after years of debate.<p>Look to China to lead the way. What&#x27;s this low-speed maglev that they&#x27;re building now?<p><a href="http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/epaper/2014-02/19/content_17291903.htm" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;usa.chinadaily.com.cn&#x2F;epaper&#x2F;2014-02&#x2F;19&#x2F;content_17291...</a>
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fataliss将近 11 年前
I wish, LA had a good public transportation network but it doesn&#x27;t. I used to take the bus, I had to change twice and spend at least 1h traveling, while it takes me 12 to 20min using my car (20min on exceptionally busy days). It probably is one of biggest city that doesn&#x27;t have an underground metro! I guess that&#x27;s one of the rare thing I miss from NYC. Being able to move fast without owning a car!
_Adam将近 11 年前
The article fails to follow the logical process to the very end. What isn&#x27;t being asked is: why are humans using that road when they weren&#x27;t using the smaller road before?<p>Humans don&#x27;t just drive for the sake of doing so. They drive because they have the need to do so. Building roads lowers the perceived time cost of driving, so more people drive, and more people drive at the time that is most desirable to do so. In some cases this results in increased congestion, but if the need of the population is met or exceeded, then the result is smooth traffic flow. Even if the bigger road is more congested, it may still have a greater net traffic flow, and that increased flow results in greater economic and societal good.<p>For example, because of new highway XYZ, I can now work somewhere that was formerly too far a commute.<p>The problem isn&#x27;t solved by building smaller roads, it&#x27;s solved by building even bigger roads, or building roads in a more optimal fashion (selecting a route for a new road that matches the transportation needs of the population).
logfromblammo将近 11 年前
This is exactly the sort of thing that I don&#x27;t want a politician to read.<p>A study finds a correlation between construction of new roads and increase in driver miles. A policy-maker, never one for logic, transmutes correlation to causation. Now, it may be that they assume that increased demand for travel causes road construction, and assign resources to reduce the total cost for each trip. Good for them.<p>But they may also assume that more roads cause more travel, and decide to prevent trips by destroying roads. Boo. You could as easily prevent water from flowing downstream by building a dam. Then your stream becomes a reservoir, the downstream flow rate reduces while it fills, then the reservoir spills over the dam at the same rate it flowed before.<p>People want to move around. They want to travel freely between the places they can earn money, the places they can spend it, and the places they enjoy keeping their stuff. Making the travel more difficult makes them unhappy, while making it easier makes them more content. For the most part, the desire to move minus the cost of the trip results in economic activity. If that number is zero or negative, people stay put, and don&#x27;t add to economic circulation.<p>Human movement is an economic engine. You can add friction to it and generate more heat, or you can remove friction and extract work instead<p>Generally speaking, you want people to take more trips, and you want the cost per trip to be as low as possible. That doesn&#x27;t necessarily mean building more, wider, and longer roads. You may be able to get better results by siting the popular destinations more closely to each other, and ensuring that the routes between them are direct, non-viscous, and non-turbulent.<p>When you do something stupid like make 3000 people work in one building complex, far away from homes or other businesses, and have everyone sleep in a suburban bedroom community, far away from jobs and shopping, yes, the road that is the best available route between them will be packed every single day. You cannot economically reduce traffic by narrowing that road. The cars you see on it will go down, but that is because people quit their jobs or moved their households over the arduous commute. They went somewhere else, and will be earning and spending there, instead. It would be better to simply put the homes, businesses, and offices closer together, and diffuse the obvious trips onto roads in such a way that they are neither over or underutilized.
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dasil003将近 11 年前
I witnessed a nice microcosm of this demonstrating how fast the shift occurs.<p>Every day I cycle commute up the London A24&#x2F;A3 (CS7) corridor. On the first day of the first tube strikes early this year, the congestion was insane. I mean the worst traffic I&#x27;ve ever seen in my life. An ambulance was literally stuck in traffic and no one within earshot of the ambulance able to move their vehicle enough for it to get through.<p>But then the second day of the strike traffic was a bit on the heavy side but mostly back to normal. I think a huge number of people realized that it was actually pointless to even attempt to go to work unless they were walking or biking. This effect even carried over to the second tube strike a month or two later.
lelf将近 11 年前
The actual paper <a href="http://www.ademloos.be/sites/default/files/meccano_docs/The_Fundamental_Law_of_Road_Congestion_Evidence_from_US_Cities.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ademloos.be&#x2F;sites&#x2F;default&#x2F;files&#x2F;meccano_docs&#x2F;The_...</a>
drawkbox将近 11 年前
Sounds a bit like Parkinson&#x27;s Law: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson&#x27;s_law" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Parkinson&#x27;s_law</a><p>&quot;The demand upon a resource tends to expand to match the supply of the resource.&quot;
sologoub将近 11 年前
This article seems like a gross oversimplification. There are a lot more variables at play here than just what people tend to do with extra capacity. Terrain and flow dynamics, as well as driver behavior, have a lot to do with it.<p>Take 405 in West Los Angeles for example. On one side it has the Sepulvida pass with very steep decent going south and ascent going north. It is crossed by I-10 going to Santa Monica and Downtown, a little further in 90 goes to Marina del Rey, and then exits for LAX.<p>If you examine this section as an example, you have number of people either trying to get in or pass through this section during commuting hours. From the north, the sepulvida pass makes people slow down as they climb the hill. Not exactly sure why, but many drivers seem to be afraid of it. This recoils through the rest of the traffic, as each incremental car slowing down results in the car behind it slowing down slightly more.<p>Once you get down the hill, you have people exiting and entering with very short distances to decelerate or accelerate, causing more slow downs.<p>On the other side, you have a similar dynamic, but people are also trying to merge to or from 90 and I-10. With majority of the traffic heading either to Santa Monica, West LA, Century City or Hollywood&#x2F;Downtown&#x2F;something in between.<p>The city has recently completed a major expansion on the 405 in that area adding a carpool lane, but more importantly changing how you merge to&#x2F;from several of the exits, including Wilshire blvd and I-10.<p>In my observation, the carpool lane did relatively little, but the smoothed exiting&#x2F;entering with enough time to accelerate shifted the bottleneck from before Wilshire blvd, frequently spilling past the 90, to no ending around Wilshire.<p>The flow restriction now seems to be the dreaded 101 interchange, with a huge amount of traffic stuck in the Sepulvida pass. As the result, I can not get from the 90 to I-10 in about 10 mins, whereas before it was easily 30.<p>Point being, that if you maintain road size (or marginally improve it) and optimize the flow, you get a lot better returns.
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Corrado将近 11 年前
What about a smartphone app that helped you avoid the most congested roads. I think Waze does something like this today and I&#x27;m sure that Google Maps can as well. We just need to have it integrated into the system so that we don&#x27;t have to think about it.<p>I think this is where projects like Andriod Auto &amp; iOS CarPlay come into play. Just jump into your car and say &quot;Take me to Julia&#x27;s house&quot; and the route will be mapped out for you. I would love to not have to figure out the best way to get to the mall on a busy Saturday afternoon! Even better, an auto-driving car will actually take care of the moving bits as well as planning your route.
transfire将近 11 年前
What a bunch phooey. Just more peddling of flawed studies to promote increased taxation.<p>If you want to reduce congestion try the obvious. 1) Mixed zoning, allowing more residential and retail to be close together. So people have less distance to travel. 2) Raise speed limits where possible so people can get to their destinations faster. 3) Build for the future. Don&#x27;t just add a lane or two, add six. 4) And yes trains, do help. The problem in the States is that we hardly have any. Only the major metro areas have any sort of adequate rail system and even they are fairly slow, limited and antiquated. Which brings me to my last point: 5) Consult with Elon Musk.
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StillBored将近 11 年前
I think studies which measure traffic congestion in the US based on road building over the last couple decades IMHO are flawed.<p>That is because I believe how and where you build the road is more important than how much road you build. For example, where I live the main roads in the city proper haven&#x27;t been upgraded in the last 40 years. Yet, new roads funneling drivers from farther and farther out are being constructed all the time. This simply means that the first 1&#x2F;2 of many drivers commutes involves sailing along a new road until they hit the old roads, and then puttering around at 5mph (or worse) for the last 5-10 miles of the journey.
gldalmaso将近 11 年前
&gt;&gt; <i>If we gave drivers some extra incentive to avoid the most congested hours, we could better utilize the roads’ capacities.</i><p>There is already enough incentive, the incentive is to avoid seeing your hours waste away on traffic. Most people don&#x27;t really get to choose their hours, with or without incentive, otherwise they already avoid the most congested hours. So the suggested incentive doesn&#x27;t really make a difference when it&#x27;s not a matter of choice, except by taking money away from people without adding any value.
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gtCameron将近 11 年前
Weird title, seeing as how the article states that bigger roads do not make traffic worse, it stays the same:<p>&gt;&gt; New roads will create new drivers, resulting in the intensity of traffic staying the same
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moron4hire将近 11 年前
I wish there were a starter packet for using the metro. I hate it when people say, &quot;where do you want to go? Oh, that&#x27;s simple, you just take the Orange line to Such-and-such station. Why couldn&#x27;t you figure that out? It&#x27;s so simple.&quot; No, that is not simple. That&#x27;s an insider&#x27;s language designed to call out the outsiders. I get there and there isn&#x27;t just an orange line. The orange and green lines overlap. Don&#x27;t get on the wrong train at the right terminal! Or maybe it&#x27;s like the purple line, where you have to take the orange line to get to it, and everyone else already knows this, but they don&#x27;t tell you that, they just say &quot;take the purple line&quot; and I&#x27;m left standing there freaking out that I can&#x27;t see a purple dot on a sign in a poorly-lit cavern.<p>If I drive somewhere, all I need to know is where it is and where I am and I can eventually get there within 50% of the normal time to get there. Let&#x27;s take this road that points towards where I want to go. That didn&#x27;t work? Okay, let&#x27;s take the next road that points to where I want to go. Unless you&#x27;re driving around the Pentagon, which I&#x27;m fairly certain has had its road systems designed into the shape of a PENTAGRAM, then that will get you to where you want to go in the majority of the US.<p>And grand total is still faster than walking to the metro, waiting in line for the train to show up, and waiting for it to stop at every spot in between.
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aaron695将近 11 年前
This article is rubbish<p>&gt; What’s Up With That: Building Bigger Roads Actually Makes Traffic Worse<p>&gt; For instance, Paris in recent decades has had a persistent policy to dramatically downsize and reduce roadways. “Driving in Paris was bad before,” said Duranton. “It’s just as bad, but it’s not much worse.”<p>Bigger roads are worse, and smaller roads are worse?<p>There&#x27;s a point here somewhere but they&#x27;ve failed to make it.
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CamperBob2将近 11 年前
Then clearly we can make traffic flow more smoothly by shrinking existing roads. Right?<p>What? No? It doesn&#x27;t work that way? Hmm, what a coincidence, it appears we&#x27;re already at the sweet spot on the traffic-flow Laffer curve.<p>Either that, or what the authors of the study are trying to optimize is very different from what the typical driver is trying to optimize.
frogpelt将近 11 年前
I&#x27;m a huge fan of toll roads. And I really like charging for use at certain times.<p>Perhaps you could reduce rates for each passenger in the vehicle. Maybe a four-passenger vehicle gets to drive free anytime. This encourages car pooling for those who can&#x27;t afford to pay the tolls.<p>In fact it may create new jobs.
skriticos2将近 11 年前
Well yes, people are irrational.<p>I personally think that a lot of jobs today don&#x27;t justify driving around at all. What difference does it make if you code in the crowded building of your employer or at home and use tele-conferences to talk with each other? Maybe you would even be more productive if you got rid of all the stress caused by commuting around a substantial portion of the day.<p>I guess a good chunk of the office work done today could be replaced by remote work, but employers insist on everyone to get into the car, commute and thereby congest roads and burn up non-renewable petrol.<p>I am seriously wondering why the working population don&#x27;t bill the time and expenses of commuting to the employers? Most entrepreneurs do. You pay $50-$100 for the plumber to come to your place (just to come there, work is billed extra). Why not office workers?
brianstorms将近 11 年前
This is nothing new. Read Robert Caro&#x27;s 1974 Pulitzer Prize-winning book THE POWER BROKER if you wanna know about roads and highways and freeways and how expanding them only makes traffic worse.
legohead将近 11 年前
I&#x27;ve always thought something is definitely wrong with the way we think about roads when car pool lanes end up just as busy&#x2F;gridlocked as the rest of the road.
bane将近 11 年前
I feel like there&#x27;s a cause and effect relationship being presented here that isn&#x27;t necessarily true, even if the correlation is true.
mcone将近 11 年前
<i>It’s the roads themselves that cause traffic. The concept is called induced demand, which is economist-speak for when increasing the supply of something (like roads) makes people want that thing even more.</i><p>So contrary to popular belief, invention is actually the mother of necessity. The question now is how best to take a systems approach to promoting alternative forms of transportation.
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ehosca将近 11 年前
Yes, I’ve been stuck in traffic on 405, but it’s not like you never get through.
uint32将近 11 年前
Also: bigger&#x2F;faster computers makes programs bloated&#x2F;slower.
anoxic将近 11 年前
This actually makes sense in an unintuitive way.
vermooten将近 11 年前
well duh