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Amazon sues employee for taking Google cloud job, in new test of non-competes

324 点作者 _pius将近 11 年前

19 条评论

luu将近 11 年前
I was just talking to a friend of mine at amazon, who said that a lot of people (including some pretty high-level people) thought prosecuting the one-click patent was a mistake because it actually made it harder to recruit.<p>That&#x27;s nothing compared to this. Seems like a classic case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.
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chris_mahan将近 11 年前
Amazon, sorry, but unless you&#x27;re paying his salary to sit at home, you&#x27;re just whining because Google offered a better job.<p>You could have kept the guy, if he was so important to your business.<p>I&#x27;m not a happy Amazon Prime customer today.
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bcantrill将近 11 年前
This is a pattern for Amazon: I work for a competitor to Amazon, and they went after us for violating a non-compete after we hired an AWS engineer. Our counsel had reviewed the non-compete before we hired the engineer, and concluded that the non-compete didn&#x27;t <i>actually</i> prevent an engineer from working for a competitor, but rather prevented much narrower activity like poaching customer lists or supplier relationships. We were somewhat surprised that Amazon aggressively pursued the matter because it seemed so obvious to us that they wouldn&#x27;t prevail. After Amazon sent us (and, it must be said, the engineer personally) a very nasty letter claiming that the non-compete was being violated, we retained local counsel and sent them an even nastier one back, making clear that we had no intention of backing down. Ultimately, they backed off, but in this process, I learned that Amazon has pursued this particular non-compete &quot;hundreds&quot; of times, and has never (to the best of the knowledge of our local counsel in Seattle) prevailed once. In part this is because Washington allows non-competes, but also doesn&#x27;t like to infringe on the free flow of labor -- temporary restraining orders preventing an individual from working for a company are extraordinarily rare. (This is in contrast to states like Texas and Massachusetts, where non-competes are infamously enforceable.)<p>So if Amazon never prevails, why do they do it? One of the peculiar attributes of Amazon&#x27;s action against us is that it was well publicized <i>within</i> Amazon -- and was apparently a result of outrage by a high-ranking executive after he learned that the former AWS engineer not only was working for a competitor, but had the gumption to open source a technology that he developed here. (Ironically, the executive only learned of all of this when the technology itself became a top story here on HN.) My conclusion from this: this action wasn&#x27;t <i>actually</i> directed at us -- Amazon is smart enough to know that nothing would come of it with respect to our actions -- but rather at <i>their own</i> employees. That is, Amazon&#x27;s pursuit of the non-compete against our engineer was their way of shooting an escapee in the back -- and sending a sharp message to any other AWS inmates with similar ambitions.<p>In terms of an immediate effect, Amazon&#x27;s move worked to a degree: our next few hires from AWS were slowed a little bit by fear of similar action. That said, the fact that we had prevailed against Amazon also gave these engineers the confidence that we could and would do so again -- and ultimately, it didn&#x27;t prevent anyone from matriculating. It did, however, have one lasting effect: the engineer that was pursued went from thinking fondly of his years at AWS to hating AWS and Amazon with a white-hot passion that still burns today. In the end, enforcing a non-compete is like erecting a Berlin Wall: if you feel you need it, you have much deeper problems...
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nostromo将近 11 年前
Governments are always trying to find a way to steal a bit of the magic of Silicon Valley, yet little attention is paid to copying California&#x27;s stance on non-competes. It allows for a free-flow of talent that is just as important as the free-flow of capital. Washington State should copy <i>that</i>.<p>Hilariously, in Washington State, you can even enforce a non-compete when you <i>fire the employee</i>.
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electic将近 11 年前
Apparently working at Amazon is damaging to your career.
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AceJohnny2将近 11 年前
One key item:<p>&quot;The suit, filed June 27 in King County Superior Court in Seattle, seeks to take advantage of a more favorable climate for non-compete deals in Washington state, where the terms of such deals have generally been allowed, if considered reasonable. Non-compete clauses have repeatedly been found invalid in California, where Google is based.&quot;<p>The article doesn&#x27;t say Szabadi was or currently is geographically employed (is his current contract with Google in California or Seattle?), which I assume would have a bearing on the suit&#x27;s strength
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btgeekboy将近 11 年前
As much as I am not a fan of non-competes, having read the complaint, it appears that this is the exact reason non-competes exist. This isn&#x27;t about an Amazon SDE that worked on the amazon.com retail site moving over to work on Gmail; the guy was responsible for working with AWS partners, and now works in the exact same position for a direct competitor, in a position where external contacts and relationships are key. Google even recognized this with their own agreement not to use that information for a period of 6 months.
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rdl将近 11 年前
I&#x27;ve heard a lot of negative things about Amazon as an employer (mainly from current or ex-Amazon people), which is depressing because they&#x27;re an awesome vendor and I want them to continue to be able to get great people and thus produce awesome stuff. (I&#x27;ve also heard &quot;but X group is awesome and not like that&quot; too, though.)<p>This really doesn&#x27;t help things on that front.
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logicalgator将近 11 年前
TLDR of my comment: always ask to see employment agreements you&#x27;ll have to sign before accepting an offer and resigning from your (now current) company, otherwise you may not know what you&#x27;ll be expected to sign until your first day.<p>In response to several comments stating or implying that you can simply not sign or negotiate a non-compete, I agree, but I think it&#x27;s worth pointing out that, at least in my experience with several (East Coast) companies (I have no experience with Amazon), none of them sends you a copy of their non-compete with your offer letter. What I have always seen happen, instead, is that after you&#x27;ve fully resigned your previous employer and show up for your first day of work at the new company, HR hands you a stack of 100-200+ pages of employee handbook, travel policy, IT policy, etc., and various employment agreements, requiring you to sign all the documents before you can start working. Buried in there may be a non-compete, potentially disguised as another type of agreement. Yes, you&#x27;re free to read them all (and you should), and you&#x27;re free to reject them. But if you reject them you&#x27;re rejecting the job, and now you&#x27;re stuck with no income until you find another job. Admittedly I think that&#x27;s better than agreeing to a bad non-compete which could last a lot longer than the time to find a new job, but it&#x27;s not an easy thing to do.<p>I strongly recommend what I do now: after receiving and before accepting an offer even verbally, request to see all employment agreements that I&#x27;ll have to sign upon starting with a new company. All have been fine with sending them to me (and if not I would immediately reject), but I would not have known about them and had time to review them if I hadn&#x27;t asked in advance.<p>One company I interviewed with years ago, which had a terribly restrictive non-compete that I rejected, took the attitude that: 1. I had nothing to worry about because they said verbally they&#x27;d never enforce it. 2. I had to sign it anyway because everybody has to sign it, no exceptions (but their verbal assurance of non-enforcement should be good enough for me). 3. They questioned my integrity and belittled my concern because (in their words) I was planning to leave the company before I&#x27;d even started. Glad I avoided that company - with that attitude, probably would have been a terrible place to work. Back then (unlike today) I&#x27;m not sure I would have had the self-confidence to fight that fight on my first day.
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fatjokes将近 11 年前
Note to self, given the choice, work in finance rather than Amazon. They apparently treat their employees better. At least they have the decency to offer you salary while you wait out a non-compete.
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sharemywin将近 11 年前
Way to win the battle and lose the war! Never hire anyone that goes to work at Amazon at the senior exec level from this point forward because they&#x27;re clearly clueless.
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simula67将近 11 年前
Maybe Google can win back some karma they lost for participating in the &quot;No Poaching&quot; deal with Apple et al by defending this guy.
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jfoster将近 11 年前
eBay Inc tried this a few years ago when Osama Bedier left PayPal for Google&#x27;s Wallet team. (<a href="http://www.wired.com/2011/05/paypal-sues-google-wallet" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wired.com&#x2F;2011&#x2F;05&#x2F;paypal-sues-google-wallet</a>)<p>I have no idea what the outcome of the case was, but Bedier spent almost 3 years at Google.
int19h将近 11 年前
The details are different, but s&#x2F;Amazon&#x2F;Microsoft and you have a headline from 2005: <a href="http://news.cnet.com/Microsoft-sues-over-Google-hire/2100-1014_3-5795051.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.cnet.com&#x2F;Microsoft-sues-over-Google-hire&#x2F;2100-10...</a>
sumoward将近 11 年前
Does anyone know how such clauses apply in the EU?
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atopuzov将近 11 年前
They should take better care of their employees so they have an incentive to stay and not sue them when they find a better job.
zw123456将近 11 年前
I hope this comment does not get me down voted into oblivion, but just to play the devils advocate here, the guy did sign the non-compete agreement, which, setting aside legal aspects, is kind of like giving your word. I agree, non-compete agreements are stupid, but you don&#x27;t have to sign them, you can always take a different job that does not require one, probably for less money. What is your word worth?
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cracker_jacks将近 11 年前
The best way to stop this is not taking jobs that require a non-compete agreement. By signing offers with non-competes, you&#x27;re literally acknowledging this is acceptable.
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turnip1979将近 11 年前
I am pretty shocked to see this. For sales jobs or executives, I can understand. But for your average tech guy? Are they kidding?
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