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My Half Workday as a Turker

245 点作者 alceufc将近 11 年前

19 条评论

zackmorris将近 11 年前
I think this is a perfect example of how money today is worth more or less than it actually is. Another way of saying that is that money is nonlinear or even non-constant.<p>For example, say you are broke and wandering the streets of a big city and really want to buy a bus ticket to another city for $20 or whatever. No matter how much your net worth is, you can&#x27;t get that $20 easily. You could try asking various businesses to do some work for cash, you could try a song and dance routine, etc, but your choices all amount to various forms of begging.<p>Meanwhile you can be sitting in an office somewhere and make that money in less than 3 hours even at minimum wage, even if you do little or no work. You can even sell something on craigslist if you’re home. I suppose in desperation you could sell blood plasma, but that’s one of very few lifelines.<p>Nobody thinks $20 is worth much, but when you don’t have it, it’s very expensive indeed.<p>To me, the root of the problem is whether you are resource rich or resource poor. So the web, by virtue of being intangible, is almost quintessentially resourceless. The trend seems to be lower and lower wages for increasingly onerous labor. In other words, if you have money, you get a real world return greater than the value of your money. But if you don’t have money, then getting it requires an expenditure of resources and effort larger than the value of the money itself.<p>At some point in the near future, acquiring money will be so expensive from a labor standpoint that it will be cheaper to simply do things yourself and live outside of mainstream society by bartering goods and services. This really bothers me, because that shouldn’t be the goal of progress. The paradox is that even though every new fiverr and mturk create more jobs, they lower the value of work. Right now this is affecting developing countries by creating a race-to-the-bottom economy, but the futurist in me looks all the way to the end and sees how so many jobs today (especially the non-production ones like administrative&#x2F;clerical work) will eventually be automated by technology and thereby make the purchase of capital through labor even more expensive.<p>Does anyone see a way out of this? Did I miss something fundamental?
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crazypyro将近 11 年前
I used MTurk off and on through my teens[0] (15-18) and found that the majority of my earnings came in through the 50 word or less summaries. You get to a point where you&#x27;ve read enough PR department press releases that you can write the entire summary (at least to the required standards, which in my experience, is &quot;barely comprehensible English&quot;) by looking at the headline. I was able to finish 50 word summaries in under 30 seconds. They values range from .25-.50 and they seem to come from a lot of submitters.<p>I&#x27;ve had a theory that out in the world somewhere is someone selling a guide to using MTurk to create article summaries and the guide suggests the price range of $.25-.50 because for the entire time that I&#x27;ve been on MTurk (many years now), every time I come back the price range is the same with small fluctuation.<p>Past the relatively low amount of summaries that are posted daily, money can be made by watching the right forums where people post high paying HITs (the name of the most popular forum eludes me at the moment) that are typically 5-15 minute surveys that pay .5-3.00 each.<p>By far, the biggest barrier to making a decent wage for me was the number of available HITs. The ones that pay over pennies each are few while the ones that are horrible time invests are everywhere. If I had an unlimited number of summary HITs, I could have made well over minimum wage.<p>[0] Made about $450 over the time, but this was sporadic, random working periods.
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incision将近 11 年前
I dabble on MTurk every now and then.<p>It might sound strange, but I find certain kinds of survey type simple tasks incredibly relaxing and some of the HITs clearly connect to what seems to be interesting research.<p>Pretty much everything the author says here is spot-on and has been for a long time.<p>MTurk is positively flooded with HITs for generating fake reviews for products and fake content for websites. The best paying HITs by far are translation tasks - transcribing Arabic and Farsi seems to pay the best ($0.30 or more per minute of transcription).<p>I aim for academic projects with preference for things which require qualification (simple math &#x2F; reading comprehension tests usually) as they generally pay quite a bit more.<p>I&#x27;ve earned an average of $0.27 per HIT and have never had one rejected.<p>Some of the more interesting &#x2F; unusual tasks I&#x27;ve seen:<p>* Pinpoint various joints (shoulder, elbow, knee) in each frame of a clip showing a baseball player swinging a bat.<p>* Drop a pin on an estimate map location based on scenery shown in a short video clip (This was long before MapCrunch&#x2F;GeoGuessr).<p>* Manipulate the camera in a scene of flat-shaded objects to bring them into &#x27;correct&#x27; perspective.<p>* Choose &#x27;preferred&#x27; structure designs (little houses) which appear to have been created by some sort of genetic algorithm.
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spikels将近 11 年前
Jargon Alert - HITs (Human Intellegence Tasks) are simply the individual tasks (or units of work) that the worker is paid for completing.
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geronimox将近 11 年前
&quot;At the time, I was hoping Dmitry would reject my HIT so I could go on a tirade about how unfair it was, and try to get him banned from MTurk or whatever.&quot;<p>I found this quite amusing. You know why this HIT was approved? Because requesters are also punished for rejecting too many HITs! He also would have been banned had Amazon discovered the scheme he was pulling.
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ChuckMcM将近 11 年前
This was a great read. I found it particularly interesting that the author came into each encounter &#x27;cold&#x27;, which is to say without much in the way of additional tooling. They did install a word counter extension but much of their tools were ad-hoc or non-existent.<p>That suggested that there may be an interesting &#x27;toolware&#x27; market for Turkers. For example, document editing; Lets say we build a simple document editing platform (copy editing not typesetting) which includes components that are dropbox like (shared storage), Google docs like etc. And design a workflow around that toolset. So pick a HIT, get a document id, it shows up in your shared storage, use the included tool to edit it, when you&#x27;re done, click &#x27;done&#x27;, and have the whole thing resubmit back for evaluation. That might allow you to focus on editing and not get hung up on a bunch of getting it done issues.<p>Not sure how practical that is, but if there are common Turk workflows it might be useful to build some common tooling for them.
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abakker将近 11 年前
I&#x27;ve used MTurk to have interviews transcribed several times, and almost always had flawless results. (sometimes jargon or names trips them up.) I&#x27;ve always been incredibly impressed at the speed they get done, which is substantially better than I&#x27;ve ever achieved doing them myself. I usually aim to pay $10 for a 10 minute segment, which should amount to more than $10&#x2F;hour for a good typist.
pessimizer将近 11 年前
An journal article I submitted a few years ago:<p><i>Amazon Mechanical Turk: Gold Mine or Coal Mine?</i><p><a href="http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1162/COLI_a_00057" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mitpressjournals.org&#x2F;doi&#x2F;abs&#x2F;10.1162&#x2F;COLI_a_00057</a>
danielweber将近 11 年前
Last time I looked at MTurk, it was offering money if I would complete some simple task, and, oh, by the way, download this crapware onto your computer and run it.
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sparkzilla将近 11 年前
I checked Mechanical Turk as an example of how to <i>not</i> to price for Newslines, my crowdsourced content site. It seems that most publishers use crowdsourcing as a way to save money, and while that may work for some tasks, you will not get consistent work done.<p>Rather than crowdsourcing being a way to find cheap writers, content business should see crowdsourcing as a way to find a diverse pool of writers who have different interests or knowledge, who can dip in and out of work, and then pay them fair money for their time.<p>I pay $1 per post for writers to write 50-100 word posts that follow a very specific format. We provide feedback to the writer to try to make them make money faster. The way I figure it is, if the writer makes money then I can make money. If they stick with you, you don&#x27;t have to train new people. People won&#x27;t leave after half a day.<p>We have already paid out thousands of dollars and our site is growing fast. Writer satisfaction is high. We currently have a waiting list of hundreds of writers wanting to sign up.<p><a href="http://newslines.org/newslines-rewards/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;newslines.org&#x2F;newslines-rewards&#x2F;</a>
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ccb_将近 11 年前
Like Jeff, I&#x27;m a professor who works on crowdsourcing. For one of my current projects, I am working on a tool to make the Amazon Mechanical Turk marketplace fairer for workers. I have developed a Chrome plugin that tracks the length of time it takes to complete a task, and a web site that aggregates the information across many workers. Crowd-Workers.com allows workers to discovery higher paying work by sorting tasks by estimated hourly rate.<p>Read more about the tool: <a href="http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~ccb/publications/crowd-workers-poster.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cis.upenn.edu&#x2F;~ccb&#x2F;publications&#x2F;crowd-workers-pos...</a><p>Try out our Chrome plugin and our web site: <a href="http://crowd-workers.com/landing" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;crowd-workers.com&#x2F;landing</a>
lilsunnybee将近 11 年前
It&#x27;s been over a year and a half since i&#x27;ve spent any serious time on Mechanical Turk trying to supplement low income, so some of my experience might be dated. With a bit of a learning curve it&#x27;s plenty doable to find decently paying jobs in transcription, writing, etc. on MT, especially if you have a strong grasp of the English language. But even with higher-skilled, higher-paying jobs on that platform, the overall experience of working on MT can often end up being plenty demoralizing and unfair in many many ways, such as qualifying for skilled work and also being compensated for work performed.<p>The most frustrating jobs i&#x27;ve ever performed on the platform were usually approx 5-10 minute tasks that seemed to be decently paying and straightforward, asking you to categorize items based on some arbitrary but seemingly simple system, but later all 5 or more submissions you might have made could be blanket denied &#x2F; payment refused. In that case not only do you not get payed, but having HIT submissions rejected really seriously hurts your reputation and what jobs you&#x27;re allowed to apply for on MT; often many more high paying jobs on the system use high acceptance rate and flawless work history as the lowest bar for entry, and so MT workers can be screwed over incredibly by having work rejected through no fault of their own.<p>To not get seriously screwed newcomers are somehow supposed to know which types of HIT&#x27;s to definitely avoid that could kill their rating, but without enough information to actually make that judgement. A task might seem easy and give the illusion that it&#x27;s okay to send 5 or 10 submissions in a row, only to later have them all rejected and serious reputation damage done.<p>I think it&#x27;s interesting but also really sad how this mirrors a lot of the unfairness and power imbalance in the larger working world as well. Reputation is everything, but if you just happen to get unlucky to start out your career working for clueless bosses &#x2F; clients with unrealistic expectations, there&#x27;s a good chance future job and career prospects are going to be seriously hindered, if not completely derailed.<p>Transcription work was usually very well paying i found, but doing one long transcription task for a $30 payout is a huge risk the way things were set up. Never mind that you worked for 4 or 5 hours on it; whoever assigned the job can reject it for whatever random reason they want and you get nothing. As nice as it can be to earn a nice wage for more high-skilled tasks, the possibility of being denied any payment for a days work with little recourse is really frustrating and demoralizing; the way Mechanical Turk is structured if anyone&#x27;s taking a negative financial hit for work done, it&#x27;s almost without fail going to be the worker.<p>Though this CMU professor obviously put some work into this write-up, i don&#x27;t see how somebody can possibly get an accurate picture of what it&#x27;s like trying to earn an income on one of these platforms by just devoting 4 hours and extrapolating based on that really limited experience. It is really easy to miss all but the most obvious and glaring problems that way, just from not sticking around long enough to even run across them.<p>There are plenty of MT workers who have spent much more substantial amounts of time on the platform, that are much better able to communicate benefits and pitfalls for the everyday worker. They might not be professors at prestigious universities like CMU, but having a decent amount of hands-on experience should really be the low bar for discussing pros&#x2F;cons of the platform seriously; just as one example assumptions about longer-term take-home pay in the write-up were pretty naive: many better paying tasks (especially web browsing tasks and surveys paying more than a pittance) are often in limited supply and cannot be repeated either at all, or only a few times per day &#x2F; week, etc. Even the best employers providing the most decent fairly-compensated work come and go, making a steady healthy income sometimes very difficult to achieve even in the best of circumstances.<p>Mechanical Turk has experienced a lot of success from the start largely because they created a service that makes it so easy for virtually anybody with internet access and a basic computer, to work from home and perform simple tasks &#x2F; other types of work when and wherever they want, and actually get paid for it.<p>By any decent standards of developed-world countries the pay is shit though, and worker protections and benefits are nonexistent; workers can be denied payment and even have their reputation ruined for no good reason, with little in the way of an appeals process. But even now services like MT are still a pretty new thing. Maybe in 10 or even 20 more years most of the bugs will get worked out, and workers of every skill level can be a on more equal footing when negotiating with employers, settling disputes etc.
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aceperry将近 11 年前
Kind of reminds me of the saying, &quot;pay peanuts, get monkeys.&quot;
bitlord_219将近 11 年前
What a dehumanizing experience.
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pc86将近 11 年前
For those of you like me getting a white screen with no content, the direct link is <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jzipmLrMVIH_FfxK4Hlkadxvz18Lv-ej8U9QXEgPlsg/pub?embedded=true" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.google.com&#x2F;document&#x2F;d&#x2F;1jzipmLrMVIH_FfxK4Hlkadxv...</a>
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ggchappell将近 11 年前
Interesting article. One hears about MT, but not so much from this perspective.<p>It&#x27;s also interesting that the linked page has two scroll bars (tried both Chrome &amp; FF).
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mkhpalm将近 11 年前
I wonder what pays more? Panhandling on the street corner or working on mechanical turk?
alexchamberlain将近 11 年前
Very interesting. Has anyone used Mechanical Turk to get work done?
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pgl将近 11 年前
Can anyone suggest any alternatives to Mechanical Turk that offer a better experience for the worker?
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