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SocialCoin: A Cryptocurrency for a Global Basic Income

60 点作者 llSourcell将近 11 年前

15 条评论

woah将近 11 年前
Any &#x27;SocialCoin&#x27; scheme pales in significance to the prospect of a decentralized network that can prove individuality, which the author brushes off with a &#x27;oh someone will figure it out&#x27;. This kind of technology would have huge, far ranging impacts, much greater than any impact that Bitcoin, Ethereum, or even Dogecoin could ever hope to aspire to.<p>If you have proof of individuality, proof of work goes out the window, proof of stake goes out the window. The entire thing that makes Bitcoin and any decentralized network hard goes out the window. Proof of human individuality in a decentralized network would completely rewire society and computer science in ways we can&#x27;t imagine.<p>This SocialCoin thing is rooted in the world we have today, but the idea is predicated on a technology that would make it irrelevant.
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oakwhiz将近 11 年前
<i>&gt;In order for SocialCoin to work, we need to figure out a way to create a decentralized ID system that doesn’t rely on government issuance like a Driver’s License or a Passport. This is currently an unsolved problem.</i><p><i>&gt;One possible way to do this is to have there be agents in the SocialCoin Distributed Autonomous Corporations who a user would schedule appointments with.</i><p>I can imagine these &quot;agents&quot; colluding together to prevent people from receiving their basic income unless they receive a cut for themselves.
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TrainedMonkey将近 11 年前
I do not think bitcoin derivative is the right solution for something like basic income.<p>It is hard to distribute resources fairly and anonymously, this kind of thing that governments excel at precisely because there is no expectation of anonymity. It might be possible to come up with a solution, however at that point it would likely be either too complex to be practical, or not fair, or not anonymous.<p>TL;DR doing this with crypto-currency defeats purpose of crypto-currency.
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gremlinsinc将近 11 年前
One thing this autonomous corporation should do is have a tax built in to pay the verification teams, and also to keep the system going as mining becomes harder and harder -- if say 2-3% of all transactions go to pay verifiers, and into the GBI pool, ... it might be more stable. You could also have some sort of bonus program where people could run small-time cpu&#x2F;gpu miners on their home pc--donate all the hashing power back to the main network where 100% goes towards the GBI pool, and it&#x27;ll sort of be like a huge botnet of miners keeping the gbi aspect going... etc... -- There will need to be a LOT of thought about how to ensure stability 5+ years into the future.
thomas4019将近 11 年前
You&#x27;re right about the problem, your solution is off.<p>&gt; It doesn’t matter if retailers don’t accept the coin, users can just exchange the coins for bitcoins or local fiat currency for immediate real world use.<p>No entity would give fiat currency for these SocialCoins unless they had some real or speculative value.<p>&gt; The basic idea is that 10% of the profits that miners earn from mining this coin is pooled and distributed to every member of the network on a bi-weekly basis.<p>Are these &quot;profits&quot; from inflation or a transaction fees?
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broolstoryco将近 11 年前
&quot;In order for SocialCoin to work, we need to figure out a way to create a decentralized ID system that doesn’t rely on government ... This is currently an unsolved problem ... The user would set an appointment with 3-5 agents individually and each agent would scan the user’s irises in person to verify that they are a real human&quot;<p>This has to be satire
dr_win将近 11 年前
I think that governments will sooner or later start taxing work of robots to redirect the resources into social safety nets.
UweSchmidt将近 11 年前
Could this be the most ambitious project of all times? It requires<p>- mass adoption of cryptocurrencies<p>- guaranteed basic income<p>- libertarian principles limiting the role of government<p>My guess is that we&#x27;ll have that mars colony first.
orasis将近 11 年前
You could bootstrap the identity verification off of Facebook and do some machine learning to look for bot clusters.
Executor将近 11 年前
Or we can get rid of monetary systems and use a resource-based economy (read Venus Project).
dllthomas将近 11 年前
If this can actually be worked out, I&#x27;d love to see it. I&#x27;m pretty skeptical though.
wyager将近 11 年前
Hahaha. This is so blatantly stupid.<p>&gt;In order for SocialCoin to work, we need to figure out a way to create a decentralized ID system that doesn’t rely on government issuance like a Driver’s License or a Passport. This is currently an unsolved problem.<p>It&#x27;s unsolved because it is literally impossible. There is no rigorous mathematical definition of identity, and no way to construct a generic identity-proof algorithm. Even humans can&#x27;t agree what constitutes an identity, and we&#x27;ve had many millions of years as social animals to evolve heuristics.<p>Are clones separate people? Are molecular copies separate people? Are brain simulations separate people? If they are, I can just spawn 1,000,000 copies of my brain and collect their SocialCoin. And then it becomes a competition of computing power, just like Bitcoin!<p>And, of course, there&#x27;s no non-blinded automated test that can differentiate a human and a machine, neither in theory nor in practice.<p>The only people who think up foolish schemes like this are those who utterly fail to grasp the genius of solving voting problems with HashCash style proof-of-work mechanisms.
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lorddoig将近 11 年前
The economics behind this is staggeringly flawed.<p>Technological innovation <i>increases wealth</i>. This is a basic economic principle as evidenced by the industrial revolution (machines took over most of those old jobs, and now there&#x27;s much less unemployment, poorhouses don&#x27;t exist, and the average person is much richer in <i>real</i> terms.) To speak of some kind of saturation point where there is a machine for everything is pretty crazy.<p>Let&#x27;s step into lala-land and assume there&#x27;s one machine that can produce anything and perform any task. It requires no maintenance and no inputs. What&#x27;s the problem? Everyone can have everything. No money required. Winning.<p>Stepping back to reality all these machines will require production, sales efforts, maintenance, electricity, network infrastructure, yadda yadda. Goods-producing machines will need a supply chain and QA, and people to figure out what to make with it next. And when exactly do we foresee machines taking over the service industry? A machine that provides business consultancy? Cuts your hair? Caters to your animalistic needs? This stuff is a long way off if it&#x27;s even possible.<p>Even when machines can do all this we&#x27;d need to remove every source of friction in the economy before we could even begin to dream of approaching that saturation point - in short that means global governance and regulation, no taxes, free trade, no behaviour limiting contracts, no currency risk, no language barrier. All of these things create market distortions that create the potential for profit, and where the potential for profit exists, people will exploit it, and there will be jobs.<p>Long story short: we have many, many problems left to solve before we can all kick back and let the robot butler massage our feet.<p>Further, the idea that a basic income is best tackled with a crypto-currency is nonsense. Crypto-currencies, like other currencies, derive their value from the underlying assets. You can mine coins, but you can&#x27;t mine value. In the UK we have a bottom-line tax rate of about 30% of GDP, and about 30% of that is social security. We&#x27;re a generous country in this regard and have lots of people happily living their lives doing nothing. It&#x27;s pretty close to this romantic notion of &#x27;basic income&#x27;.<p>If you haven&#x27;t done the maths on that yet, the UK&#x27;s percentage of GDP spent on social security is 30% x 30% = 9%. Assuming SocialCoin is the only currency in the world and that global PPP is uniform (and in line with the UK today), we need to solve (as per the 10% of mining proceeds idea):<p>required_inflation * 0.1 = 0.09 required_inflation = (0.09&#x2F;0.1) = 0.9 = 90%<p>A world with 90% inflation is a world in crisis. Assuming instead that we give <i>all</i> mining profits to the needy, we&#x27;d still need to maintain 9% inflation...which is also a world in crisis.<p>I haven&#x27;t, and won&#x27;t, even touch on the absurdity of the very notion of &#x27;basic income&#x27; (but there&#x27;s a reason it doesn&#x27;t enter economists heads).<p>All in this is just a thin and problematic veil over the desire to redistribute wealth from those who have it to those who don&#x27;t. Theoretically this is already solidly solved - you take lumps of money from the rich (in any currency you fancy), you walk over to the poor, and you hand it to them. You don&#x27;t add conditions to it and you do everything to seriously minimise administration costs. This is the <i>second fundamental theorem of welfare economics</i>.
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seoguru将近 11 年前
crypto-currency&#x27;s value is derived from the &quot;greater fool theory&quot; I don&#x27;t think socialcoin will fly. Happy to be proven wrong.<p><a href="http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2014/05/need-taxes-mmt-perspective.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;neweconomicperspectives.org&#x2F;2014&#x2F;05&#x2F;need-taxes-mmt-pe...</a>
monkeypizza将近 11 年前
A system where people can survive and reproduce without working can&#x27;t end well.<p>Imagine it in the context of computer resource management - &quot;every program deserves this much RAM and this much CPU&quot;. When you have randomly varying, recombining programs, what will the result be after 50 generations? Eventually a program will evolve to reproduce faster, and it will come to dominate the population. Why would you think that such a thing wouldn&#x27;t happen with human beings, too?<p>What do you think happens when you provide unlimited free food to a population of rats? A few continue being &quot;productive&quot; - searching for new food supplies, etc. but they get out-reproduced by the ones who just eat all day. So the population explodes, eventually the food runs out, and then they all die.<p>So overall I think that a global basic income, combined with unlimited reproduction, would have a horrible outcome for humanity.
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