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Unschooling: The Case for Setting Your Kids Into the Wild

174 点作者 saadmalik01将近 11 年前

14 条评论

fchollet将近 11 年前
The fundamental problem with the elementary school system in the west is that kids are given no room for self-direction whatsoever; school for them is de facto a part-time prison or &quot;labor&quot; camp. As a result they are trained by association to dread to that which the system purports to champion: learning, culture, reading, knowledge, even any demonstration of intelligence.<p>It takes a combination of luck, will and positive external influences (good parents, a mentor) to overcome that. But most kids don&#x27;t.<p>Which is why it seems to me that &quot;setting kids free&quot;, in the sense of giving them significant latitude for self-direction in their activities and education, is a great principle. The key problem of education is motivation. Most kids are smart and fast learners, the only difficulty in getting them to learn is to get them interested (even better: passionate). The only way that can happen is by giving them choice, freedom. The opportunity to exercise free will. Let&#x27;s <i>guide</i> kids, not force them to sit and listen passively (they won&#x27;t).
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fred_durst将近 11 年前
<i>&gt; At the time, my father—who earned his undergraduate degree at Cornell and his master’s at Johns Hopkins</i><p>Nothing cooler than rich kids taking all their advantages they were given and use them to live like paupers with zero concern for the the world around them.<p><i>&gt; I can report that Fin and Rye both learned to read and write with essentially zero instruction, albeit when they were about eight years old, a year or so later than is expected.</i><p>I&#x27;m pretty sure that&#x27;s closer to 4 or 5 for most kids who grow up in families from the Cornell &#x2F; John Hopkins pedigree.<p><i>&gt; I want them to remain free of social pressures to look, act, or think any way but that which feels most natural to them.</i><p>Awesome how the author takes his past issues of &quot;social pressures&quot; and maps them onto his kids. Wonder if he ever realized that &quot;social pressures&quot; are one of the most natural things a child learns.<p>This thing is full of gems. I shouldn&#x27;t be so sarcastic about child abuse, but I just can&#x27;t help it. I&#x27;ve met far too many of these clowns in my life.
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rdtsc将近 11 年前
&gt; Everything I learned felt abstract and standardized. It was a conditional knowledge that existed in separation from the richly textured world just beyond the school’s plate-glass windows, which, for all their transparency, felt like the bars of a prison cell.<p>Tell that story to a kid in Africa who has to walk miles to get to school and the school might not have electricity or water and so on. They would say &quot;So, you&#x27;re telling me, you have free transportation to school, teachers, computers in ever classroom, air conditioned rooms, and you choose let your children learn to carve &#x27;beautiful long bows&#x27; instead?&quot;<p>Sorry that is how I feel. I can&#x27;t shake the feeling that this is elitist. Like the article puts (as if pre-emptively trying to defend against a counter argument) this is like living some &quot;Jeffersonian fantasies&quot; -- that is exactly what I see here.<p>At the end of the day they are dooming these children to live in an isolated sheltered bubble. Which would have worked great in early settler days. Not today. Today unless they keep in that bubble they will be controlled and owned by those that understand how compounding interest rate works, how computers works, how the legal system works, how lobbying works, how quarks work, how genes work and so on.<p>Now with that said, it is their right to do it and it is nice to have that choice. This is what makes it great to live in this country. I personally think they are a little bit crazy for doing what they are doing.
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JDDunn9将近 11 年前
Seriously? If unschooling were so great 3rd world countries would be dominating the world.<p>Creativity is domain specific. Walking around the woods won&#x27;t help you be creative in solving math&#x2F;engineering&#x2F;science problems. You need a strong background in the subject, and to see how other people solved similar problems.<p>I feel bad for these kids as their future is being pigeon-holed. Who&#x27;s going to hire someone who&#x27;s educational experience is walking around the woods unsupervised?
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tatterdemalion将近 11 年前
I don&#x27;t understand how, on a site called &quot;Hacker News,&quot; so many people seem oblivious to how damaging the primary educational system is to young peoples&#x27; minds and methods of thought. Unschooling doesn&#x27;t mean not teaching children: that&#x27;s what happens in schools.
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socrates1998将近 11 年前
There are a lot of things I like about this, but I am do see some issues.<p>I think the boys are learning a lot of very interesting skills, but I think they would struggle a lot with becoming lawyers and doctors like the author claims.<p>My biggest concern would be their reading skills, and later, their advanced math skills.<p>He says they read fine, but reading is something that must be done almost every day for years to get to a highly literate point. Literacy and reading comprehension are essential skills to navigating the modern world.<p>I am just not sure what kind of jobs or careers they will be prepared for later on.<p>I mean, it sounds great and I would love to have done a lot of this stuff as a kid, but I just see issues if the parents don&#x27;t really stay on top of it.<p>If you grow up hunting, fishing and farming, you don&#x27;t exactly prepare yourself to be a doctor, lawyer or engineer.<p>On the other hand, if you have the reading and maths skills, you can still be a hunter&#x2F;fisher&#x2F;farmer.
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idlewords将近 11 年前
If you hunt them for sport from childhood, the survivors get wily indeed.
mjhouse将近 11 年前
Except I did this (almost exactly this) when I was a kid, and it left holes in my education that you could drive a bus through.
xexers将近 11 年前
The author implies that self directly learning is always better than classroom. I can think of examples where this is not true.<p>For example, I know dozens of people who were never formally taught how to touch type on a computer keyboard. Most of them simply learned to type on their own by using the keyboard. They often type with 2 fingers on each hand (index and middle). They get to a level that they feel is &quot;good enough&quot; which is usually about 20-30 words per minute. However, with that approach, they will NEVER get up to 60-100 words per minute which you can easily do if you were taught to properly touch type. I often feel these people are hindered by the way they learned how to type.<p>I often prefer to learn from experts, which sometimes means forgoing learning how to do it myself and simply being taught the &quot;right way&quot;. I know seeing the words &quot;the right way&quot; may make some people cringe, but there are a lot of things in this world to which that expression applies. If the kids want to challenge that after they have learned the &quot;right way&quot;, be my guest... and I hope you find a better way.<p>my $0.02
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samirmenon将近 11 年前
This actually seems astoundingly misguided and dangerous.<p>One of the unique, defining qualities of humanity is an ability to build on the knowledge and experiences of generations before us. Why throw all of the knowledge of the past 5,000 years of human civilization out?<p>When will they learn math, or science, or history? How can you become a lawyer, doctor, or engineer without learning these subjects? Can they really be postponed until college?
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bayesianhorse将近 11 年前
The case against abandoning conventional schooling: In developing countries, every month a child goes to school significantly increases final IQ and future earning power.<p>You think you have an ADHD epidemic on your hand? Just wait until children who don&#x27;t have ADHD don&#x27;t have to learn to sit still and discipline themselves and their emotions.
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ryanmarsh将近 11 年前
We homeschool our children and for a year we tried unschooling. My wife&#x27;s cousins were all unschooled. There is definitely merit to the approach, although done right (unschooling) it can be much harder for the parent than it looks. Done wrong it can set your children up for a fantastic career barely making ends meet. So at it&#x27;s worse it&#x27;s no worse than compulsory public education. We&#x27;re much bigger fans of alt-schooling (or home schooling as it were).<p>We&#x27;ve settled on a curriculum of the classics and are part of a home schooling group organized around said curriculum. The kids meet weekly and one of the parents facilitates each year, each &quot;grade&quot; level. Even though there is a &quot;tutor&quot; (facilitator) it requires significant parental involvement.<p>The most unsettling aspect to alt-schooling in general are the ridiculous things that people say to you. It&#x27;s not that people are stupid, it&#x27;s that there is so much they know that just isn&#x27;t so. It is utterly fruitless to debate the benefits of alt-schooling with people who have not been outside the box. You cannot know how rich, valuable, and academically positive alt-schooling is on average. So you ask questions like, &quot;what about socialization&quot; as if it&#x27;s a good thing to be in an asylum run by the inmates, or &quot;what about college&quot; as if Harvard doesn&#x27;t want someone who studied latin from age 7. I digress.<p>To be fair I feel the need to share my background. I&#x27;m a high-school dropout. I subsequently aced the GED, along with the others who took the test with me. I did high school at a &quot;blue ribbon&quot; public school. Everything before that was at a small church-supported private school. We were by no means wealthy, and tuition was as cheap as it could have possibly been. Still my parents both had to work so that we could go. In the private school we did Algebra in the sixth grade, I read at a post-high school reading level in the third grade. It was intellectually stimulating and a wonderful nurturing environment. When I got to public school I found a prison for the mind. The teachers, while seemingly more educated seemed either not to care or to be overwhelmed with things other than teaching. The latter must have been as soul crushing for them as corporate work. It was soul crushing for me to be there. At first I began to advance ahead of my peers. I started taking advanced classes and realized that they were just more of the same mediocrity. At 16 I got a job programming and at 17 I dropped out. The rest, as they say, is history. I now manage a team of over a hundred programmers. I have a passionate hatred of the public education <i>system</i>. I didn&#x27;t wind up digging ditches and I believe that it is 100% because of my early education experience in that humble little school that was not unlike a homeschool club.<p>I&#x27;m not debating the merits of your public education experience. I&#x27;m not saying you wasted your time or didn&#x27;t come out ok. I&#x27;m not saying you aren&#x27;t a good person or your teachers weren&#x27;t either. I&#x27;m saying it can be better and it&#x27;s amazing how little effort it can require. Life will not fall apart if you don&#x27;t take AP Math and join the Key Club.<p>We&#x27;ve all been told the same lie, work hard in school so you can get good grades so you can go to a good college so you can get a good job so you can work hard so you can become CEO. Alt-schooling can instead prepare one well for the world where &quot;humans need not apply&quot;.
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deckiedan将近 11 年前
I was &quot;home educated&quot; - the typically British middle ground. Not &quot;home school&quot; (school at home) and not unschooling. But self-educated &#x2F; family educated at home, for the whole of highschool level. We&#x27;d just moved country, and didn&#x27;t want to jump into a new school system straight away. It worked pretty well for us. I spent a lot of time learning to program and play music, I joined a local drama group, played in the church band, the town marching band, and taught myself to juggle. My brother did loads of piano, singing, and IT stuff. He&#x27;s now working as the IT and music teacher at a local private school (after having gone on to do his BA and MA in Theology, as well as a teacher-training certificate), and I&#x27;m working as in a non-profit doing all kinds of things. We decided, my brother, my parents, and I, to use a curriculum for a few years, which allowed us to get International Baccalaureate equivalents, which was useful for my brother with going on to Uni, but useless to me. We learned a lot of useful stuff though.<p>I learned all the sine &#x2F; cosine stuff around age 10, as I was trying to write a computer game and needed to move things around circles, so asked my mum about it, who asked her friends on the home-educating-parents email list, and eventually someone helped. (This being in the late 90s). I wanted to learn it, so I did. I can still remember everything I need to know about those because it was interesting to me at the time. I never learned to spell at school. I was awful, always in the lowest group in class. Until I wasn&#x27;t doing spelling tests, and just writing on my own at home on the computer, and kept getting annoyed at the little red squiggle under half my words. My brain eventually learned it was quicker and less distracting to my writing to learn the correct spellings rather than having to go back and correct them.<p>I do think a certain amount of &quot;education&quot; is required for a sensible life. Reading, writing, arithmetic, geography, etc. But once you&#x27;ve learned to read, and if you&#x27;ve had a love of books instilled into you, you&#x27;ll probably pick up most stuff you really want to learn along the way. And there&#x27;s no <i>real</i> reason to force any of those skills at any particular age. My brother learned to read at about 3 and a half, as I was learning in kindergarten, he decided to too. I have another friend who simply wasn&#x27;t interested, and didn&#x27;t learn until about 8 and a half. But then he learned to read and write in about 2 months flat.<p>Kids are all different. Public education was a brilliant, wonderful institution to help move millions of families out of poverty and enforced unskilled labour. But once you&#x27;ve moved a society out of that state, education needs to be much less of a &quot;life support&quot; type system, and become more of a individualised therapy &#x2F; explorative &#x2F; personal journey.
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nether将近 11 年前
Isn&#x27;t it better to keep your kid inside and teach him to code?