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Spaced Repetition is Awesome

188 点作者 frrp将近 11 年前

22 条评论

xiaoma将近 11 年前
I used to blog about spaced repetition systems five years ago back when it was mostly just language geeks into it: <a href="http://toshuo.com/2009/review-anki-spaced-repetition-learning-system/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;toshuo.com&#x2F;2009&#x2F;review-anki-spaced-repetition-learnin...</a><p>It&#x27;s undeniable that SRS is great for remembering discrete chunks of information, but making it the primary portion of language learning efforts is generally a mistake since learning a language is not simply a process of memorizing a dictionary, word by word. Unlike an SRS, Extensive Reading will also help solidify a learner&#x27;s understanding of collocations and semantics. It teaches more of the target language&#x27;s culture, too.<p>There are two places in language learning where an SRS is fantastic. It&#x27;s a great way to speed up learning the very basic scaffold necessary for engaging with graded readers or children&#x27;s materials. Basic phonics training is particularly low-hanging fruit. Another great use is for memorizing words that one will very rarely hear in daily life and yet are the kinds of words everyone would be expected to know.<p>I recently tried Duolingo. I like some aspects of it, but it&#x27;s really too bad that it mixes comprehension and production in all the activities. Far more practice time should be spent on comprehension (both listening and reading) than on production. This is true at every level but even more vital for beginners. Typing out words in a foreign language just isn&#x27;t the best use of a beginner&#x27;s study time.
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merraksh将近 11 年前
From his examples I wonder if these apps are good for grammar too, given that the two Portuguese sentences he writes have wrong grammar and&#x2F;or declination.<p>1) <i>Mulheres bonitas sao muito motivado.</i> Literally &quot;Beautiful women are very motivated&quot;, though the correct one (for gender and number) should be &quot;Mulheres bonitas são muito motivadAS&quot;. Not sure what sense this makes though, I guess he wanted to say beautiful women were a good motivation (for him to learn Portuguese), &quot;Mulheres bonitas são boa motivação&quot;.<p>2) (NSFW) <i>Sua rabos e bonita</i> should better be &quot;seu rabo é bonito&quot;, i.e. (literal translation) &quot;your a__ is nice&quot;. Wrong gender in &quot;your&quot; and &quot;nice&quot; and wrong number in a<i></i>.
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tzs将近 11 年前
There was a discussion of spaced repetition here two days ago. Does this mean the optimum time for the next spaced repetition discussion is now about 10 days from now?
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juanre将近 11 年前
For those of you using Emacs and org-mode org-drill is a great option, <a href="http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/org-drill.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;orgmode.org&#x2F;worg&#x2F;org-contrib&#x2F;org-drill.html</a>
tokenadult将近 11 年前
After reading all the comments posted here till now, I see that they are almost all about foreign language learning, with few mentioning other applications of spaced repetition systems. I had better apply my own background in foreign language learning (I learned Chinese as a second language beginning at age seventeen well enough to spend most of my twenties working as a language teacher, translator, and interpreter) to letting my friends here on HN know what else is useful to do for learning a human language well.<p>I hope the FAQ information below helps hackers achieve their dreams. As I learned Mandarin Chinese up to the level that I was able to support my family for several years as a Chinese-English translator and interpreter, I had to tackle several problems for which there is not yet a one-stop-shopping software solution. For ANY pair of languages, even closely cognate pairs of West Germanic languages like English and Dutch, or Wu Chinese dialects like those of Shanghai and Suzhou, the two languages differ in sound system, so that what is a phoneme in one language is not a phoneme in the other language.<p><a href="http://www.sil.org/linguistics/GlossaryOfLinguisticTerms/WhatIsAPhoneme.htm" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sil.org&#x2F;linguistics&#x2F;GlossaryOfLinguisticTerms&#x2F;Wha...</a><p>But a speaker of one language who is past the age of puberty will simply not perceive many of the phonemic distinctions in sounds in the target language (the language to be learned) without very careful training, as disregard of those distinctions below the level of conscious attention is part of having the sound system of the speaker&#x27;s native language fully in mind. Attention to target language phonemes has to be developed through pains-taking practice.<p><a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10442032" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;pubmed&#x2F;10442032</a><p>It is brutally hard for most people (after the age of puberty, and perhaps especially for males) to learn to attend to sound distinctions that don&#x27;t exist in the learner&#x27;s native language. That is especially hard when the sound distinction signifies a grammatical distinction that also doesn&#x27;t exist in the learner&#x27;s native language. For example, the distinction between &quot;I speak&quot; and &quot;he speaks&quot; in English involves a consonant cluster at the end of a syllable, and no such consonant clusters exist in the Mandarin sound system at all. Worse than that, no such grammatical distinction as &quot;first person singular&quot; and &quot;third person singular&quot; for inflecting verbs exists in Mandarin, so it is remarkably difficult for Mandarin-speaking learners of English to learn to distinguish &quot;speaks&quot; from &quot;speak&quot; and to say &quot;he speaks Chinese&quot; rather than * &quot;he speak Chinese&quot; (not a grammatical phrase in spoken English).<p>Most software materials for learning foreign languages could be much improved simply by including a complete chart of the sound system of the target language (in the dialect form being taught in the software materials) with explicit description of sounds in the terminology of articulatory phonetics<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articulatory_phonetics" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Articulatory_phonetics</a><p>with full use of notation from the International Phonetic Alphabet.<p><a href="http://www.langsci.ucl.ac.uk/ipa/ipachart.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.langsci.ucl.ac.uk&#x2F;ipa&#x2F;ipachart.html</a><p>Good language-learning materials always include a lot of focused drills on sound distinctions (contrasting minimal pairs in the language) in the target language, and no software program for language learning should be without those. It is still an art of software writing to try to automate listening to a learner&#x27;s pronunciation for appropriate feedback on accuracy of pronunciation. That is not an easy problem.<p>After phonology, another huge task for any language learner is acquiring vocabulary, and this is the task on which most language-learning materials are most focused. But often the focus on vocabulary is not very thoughtful.<p>The classic software approach to helping vocabulary acquisition is essentially to automate flipping flash cards. But flash cards have ALWAYS been overrated for vocabulary acquisition. Words don&#x27;t match one-to-one between languages, not even between closely cognate languages. The map is not the territory, and every language on earth divides the world of lived experience into a different set of words, with different boundaries between words of similar meaning.<p>The royal road to learning vocabulary in a target language is massive exposure to actual texts (dialogs, stories, songs, personal letters, articles, etc.) written or spoken by native speakers of the language. I&#x27;ll quote a master language teacher here, the late John DeFrancis. A few years ago, I reread the section &quot;Suggestions for Study&quot; in the front matter of John DeFrancis&#x27;s book Beginning Chinese Reader, Part I, which I first used to learn Chinese back in 1975. In that section of that book, I found this passage, &quot;Fluency in reading can only be achieved by extensive practice on all the interrelated aspects of the reading process. To accomplish this we must READ, READ, READ&quot; (capitalization as in original). In other words, vocabulary can only be well acquired in context (an argument he develops in detail with regard to Chinese in the writing I have just cited) and the context must be a genuine context produced by native speakers of the language.<p>I have been giving free advice on language learning since the 1990s on my personal website,<p><a href="http://learninfreedom.org/languagebooks.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;learninfreedom.org&#x2F;languagebooks.html</a><p>and the one advice I can give every language learner reading this thread is to take advantage of radio broadcasting in your target language. Spoken-word broadcasting (here I&#x27;m especially focusing on radio rather than on TV) gives you an opportunity to listen and to hear words used in context. In the 1970s, I used to have to use an expensive short-wave radio to pick up Chinese-language radio programs in North America. Now we who have Internet access can gain endless listening opportunities from Internet radio stations in dozens of unlikely languages. Listen early and listen often while learning a language. That will help with phonology (as above) and it will help crucially with vocabulary.<p>The third big task of a language learner is learning grammar and syntax, which is often woefully neglected in software language-learning materials. Every language has hundreds of tacit grammar rules, many of which are not known explicitly even to native speakers, but which reveal a language-learner as a foreigner when the rules are broken. The foreign language-learner needs to understand grammar not just to produce speech or writing that is less jarring and foreign to native speakers, but also to better understand what native speakers are speaking or writing. Any widely spoken modern language has thick books reporting the grammatical rules of the language,<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Mandarin-Chinese-Functional-Reference-Grammar/dp/0520066103/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Mandarin-Chinese-Functional-Reference-...</a><p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Chinese-Comprehensive-Grammar-Grammars/dp/0415150329/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Chinese-Comprehensive-Grammar-Grammars...</a><p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Comprehensive-Grammar-English-Language/dp/0582517346/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Comprehensive-Grammar-English-Language...</a><p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-Grammar-English-Language/dp/0521431468/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Cambridge-Grammar-English-Language&#x2F;dp&#x2F;...</a><p>and it is well worth your while to study books like that both about your native language(s) and about any language you are studying.
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watterssn将近 11 年前
For those looking for SRS built around keyboard shortcuts and programming editors give <a href="https://www.shortcutfoo.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.shortcutfoo.com</a> a try. The learn section uses an SRS algorithm and uses timing to determine the rating (vs selecting a number). shameless plug: I built it :)
rmc将近 11 年前
One of the hardest things for spacedrrepetition software is finding&#x2F;creating decks of words to learn. Does anyone have any recommendations for how to go about that?
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patrickk将近 11 年前
Sivers on SRS (great info): <a href="http://sivers.org/srs" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;sivers.org&#x2F;srs</a>
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erikb将近 11 年前
Since I started SRS (first Anki and now even more successful with memrise) I have to agree that it&#x27;s the most awesome thing I encountered so far learning languages. To say the truth due to lazyness and being tired after work I haven&#x27;t found a reasonable alternative to learn thousands of vocabs. So before SRS I really was screwed, only learning very, very slowly.
yummyfajitas将近 11 年前
Let me just say this post was mainly to inform my readers that SRS exists. A far better submission for HN would have been gwerns review article, with science and such.
brok3nmachine将近 11 年前
I&#x27;m close to launching a memory trainer for remembering Names and Faces. It uses a spaced repetition algorithm based on Super Memo 2 (Anki does as well, but I&#x27;m not sure how far it has evolved from its SM2 roots): <a href="http://www.supermemo.com/english/ol/sm2.htm" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.supermemo.com&#x2F;english&#x2F;ol&#x2F;sm2.htm</a><p>I&#x27;ve also found SRS to be incredibly effective when combined with other mnemonic techniques, while learning French. I wrote about this recently: <a href="http://www.ubermemory.com/blog/understanding-mnemonics" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ubermemory.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;understanding-mnemonics</a>
aabajian将近 11 年前
I wrote a free spaced-repetition app for iOS a while back:<p><a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/memorize-me!/id578975798?mt=8" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;itunes.apple.com&#x2F;us&#x2F;app&#x2F;memorize-me!&#x2F;id578975798?mt=...</a><p>My plan was to release packs of things to memorize (e.g. Famous Quotes, Ten Commandments, etc.), but with 0-10 downloads a week, I just gave up on it. If there&#x27;s some interest, I&#x27;ll consider releasing an update.
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hngiszmo将近 11 年前
The biggest list of learning apps, many of which do support SRS is <a href="http://www.flashcardapps.info/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.flashcardapps.info&#x2F;</a><p>It&#x27;s iOS only but my point is to show how there is a huge variety even for iOS users.<p>I did my own free SRS flashcards app and focus much on cooperative content creation: <a href="https://fluxcards.de/" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;fluxcards.de&#x2F;</a><p>My suggestion is to try it out if you never did as it is truly amazing. It can&#x27;t replace a teacher or actually using what you are trying to learn but it can make sure 100% that you learn faster and never forget facts that you want to make sure you know. Try Anki or any other other SRS app if you don&#x27;t want to fall for my bold self-advertisement but try it out. It&#x27;s worth it and should be known by all.
jms将近 11 年前
I&#x27;ve almost finished building a system for learning language specifically using spaced repetition.<p>Instead of basic flash cards, reads you the word (audio); then if you don&#x27;t get it you&#x27;ll be shown the word (visual); then you&#x27;ll be read the word in context; then shown the word in context.<p>The system doesn&#x27;t just drill you on single words, it tests comprehension on full sentences and documents too.<p>I&#x27;m currently putting the last polishes on to make sure new users can easily start learning. If you&#x27;re interested, I&#x27;ll announce the beta launch on my mailing list at www.hotglot.com , or if you&#x27;re super keen email me at james @ hotglot.com and I&#x27;ll give access to the alpha version.
cbovis将近 11 年前
I can testify to the benefits of SR apps too after using Skritter to improve Chinese reading and writing. Once you get the ball rolling you quickly find yourself easily memorising characters and in some cases even predicting the formation of characters you&#x27;ve never met before. For anyone who wants to learn written Chinese or Japanese I would highly recommend it!<p>That said though, for learning the spoken language there&#x27;s no substitute for communicating with native speakers on a regular basis. SR tools simply help as an additional tool to speed up your spoken learning or help with reading&#x2F;writing.<p><a href="http://www.skritter.com/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.skritter.com&#x2F;</a>
kyro将近 11 年前
Spaced repetition is indeed awesome. For a month now I&#x27;ve been working through a deck of hard English vocabulary using Anki, and already my speech and reading comprehension capabilities have increased dramatically.
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melling将近 11 年前
Can anyone explain how a good SRS system should work? Are there any deficiencies in the current apps? I&#x27;ve got several iOS language apps and I&#x27;m looking for features for my next release. I just added about 1000 pictures so it&#x27;s easier to learn by association, rather than word pairs e.g. gato&#x2F;cat. Here&#x27;s my Spanish app.<p><a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/h4-spanish-lite/id388918463?mt=8" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;itunes.apple.com&#x2F;us&#x2F;app&#x2F;h4-spanish-lite&#x2F;id388918463?...</a>
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bayesianhorse将近 11 年前
I think spaced repetition is over-hyped and under-understood.<p>In language learning, it can have some benefit, but I think duolingo&#x27;s approach, which does not obsess over computing repetition times, more effective than flash card software.<p>I found that in order to use a new word, 6 repetitions isn&#x27;t enough, you rather need a few hundreds to make it stick. Also waiting a few weeks until the next repetition is just a waste of time...
a3_nm将近 11 年前
A very cool thing with Anki (with contrast with Duolingo) is that it is free software (as in free speech), and is distributed on F-Droid <a href="https://f-droid.org" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;f-droid.org</a> for Android users who do not have Google play.
jongraehl将近 11 年前
Read <a href="https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22815528-anki-essentials" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.goodreads.com&#x2F;book&#x2F;show&#x2F;22815528-anki-essentials</a> (Anki Essentials) to get started.
donniezazen将近 11 年前
I have used Anki. I really wish they had paid high quality decks to study.
hasenj将近 11 年前
1. Flash cards are boring as hell<p>2. Memorizing a bunch of vocabulary does <i>not</i> help you learn the language. If anything, it might be a hinderance.<p>Bear with me here.<p>The main obstacle in learning a language is not the acquisition of vocabulary per se, but getting familiar and acquainted with how ideas are expressed in the language.<p>The most common mistake that beginners make is they try to form the sentence in their native language, then translate it to the target language. This approach is guaranteed to make you form BAD sentences.<p>You need to be exposed to not just vocabulary, but phrases, collocations[0], and idioms.<p>You must train your mind to use the expressions of your target language from the start .. <i>without</i> starting from some expression in your native language.<p>To get there, you need to be exposed to tons of natural speech&#x2F;writings&#x2F;dialogs in the target language.<p>That&#x27;s why a vocabulary list on its own is pretty useless.<p>If you&#x27;re going to use flashcards, let the entries be phrases and collocations, instead of single words.<p>[0]: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collocation" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Collocation</a>
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