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Norman Borlaug on Organic Farming

34 点作者 glymor超过 15 年前

9 条评论

mncaudill超过 15 年前
Borlaug had no problem with people buying organic (e.g., "Let them buy it. Let them pay a bit more. It's a free society."). His issue was that first-world people shouldn't completely abandon the advancement of genetically-modified food as it doesn't agree with their views of how food should be grown.<p>Most of us can buy organic food I would imagine, and it usually does taste better. But we shouldn't force our ideals of what others should and should not eat when organic is not a viable option, and <i>any</i> food is better than tastier food. That was Borlaug's message.
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antonovka超过 15 年前
I buy organic for three reasons:<p>1) Despite what Norman Borlaug said, the vegetables taste better. I don't really care why. Maybe it has nothing to do with the fertilizer used, rather that they simply don't ripen the tomatoes with ethylene (the other side of the techno-farming coin).<p>2) I can afford it.<p>3) I don't trust Monsanto and their ilk to integrate technology to better feed me. I expect them to rely on technology to improve their bottom line, very likely disadvantaging me in the process -- their goals and incentives are simply not aligned with my own.
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bk超过 15 年前
This is a typical ideologically charged topic - so I will present a few facts that that I think may put some of the debate in perspective:<p>1. There are now more obese people than starving people in the world. The diseases that are killing those overweight people are largely nutritional in origin (heart disease, diabetes, at least some cancers).<p>2. The EU (and I assume the US/Canada as well) are destroying agricultural products en masse, due to subsidized overproduction.<p>3. Population growth is rapidly decelerating - the largest countries in the world have or are rapidly approaching "first world" birth rates. Western Europe is shrinking.<p>Borlaug did phenomenal work for his historical period, however, looking at it in a historical timeframe, we should remain aware that the parameters of our world are constantly changing, and thus it's not that simple.<p>Personally, I think it requires a careful look at the political and economic production and distribution systems around the agriculture and food industries. The whole "granola hippie" versus "libertarian corporatist" debate is simply a huge distraction that misses the point.
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hendler超过 15 年前
Where Borlaug and organic farming have differences is modeling sustainability.<p>As a scientist, I think (based on very little knowledge of him) , Borlaug was interested in sustainability and open to criticism.<p>The problem of sustainability can be addressed by various forms of science - Borlaug probably doesn't deserve to be a lightening rod. The politicization of agriculture (and the sustainability debate) is industrial farming techniques are sometimes (obviously) in conflict with ecologically "holistic" practices - that is, the model of the systems are different, and both models get things wrong.<p>My two cents: Profit clouds science as much as fear or ignorance.
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JulianMorrison超过 15 年前
The only reason I ever buy "organic" is when I think the regular product is cheating me by adding in a lot of stuff I wouldn't consider an improvement, like water in meat, corn starch in sauce, etc. Ironically these are often things with organic equivalents - but the organic brands are selling to a demographic who read the ingredient labels.
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martythemaniak超过 15 年前
Opponents of organic food never bring one of the main reasons why people buy organic - it tastes freaking awesome. While it may not be true for all products, there is a pretty clear difference between a lot of organic and non-organic products.
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chez17超过 15 年前
"That's ridiculous. This shouldn't even be a debate. Even if you could use all the organic material that you have--the animal manures, the human waste, the plant residues--and get them back on the soil, you couldn't feed more than 4 billion people."<p>Quotes like this make me sad. This is so ignorant coming from a brilliant man. Organic or conventional farming isn't the issue. The way most Americans consume meat 3 times a day is the issue. It would be like having a debate on oil consumption in this country and two people were arguing about heating homes with oil and nobody ever brought up transportation. Eating meat 3 times a day isn't sustainable. Organic farming is. The way this debate is framed is just beyond stupid for how intelligent the people having it are. Everyone just assumes that meat 3 times a day is ok and it's the organic farming that isn't sustainable. This is laughable.<p>This isn't an all or nothing thing here. Eating meat in moderation is fine. This country (American) has a taste for federally subsidized, extremely cheap and unhealthy meat. That is the issue. Not farming.
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azanar超过 15 年前
Until now, I haven't said much about this, because arguments about organic farming seem to quickly part with reasonableness and come to rely on blanket assertions and condescension. It's getting old, and I would argue that we either need to change the way we approach this topic, or keep it off the front page; I'd prefer the former, but I think that will be hard.<p>I worry that it has become to tied up in people's sense of identity. Not in the sense of an environmentalist lashing themselves to a tree, but in the sense of two neighbors attempting to win a battle about who loves and cares for their families safety more by buying expensive items. It might still be true that one of them loves their family more, but it is irrelevant to the battle; the real battle is who can buy more of the expensive shit to prove it to the person they are fighting against. This is a class conflict, above everything else that is going on.<p>And hence the problem with organic food; it provides a more expensive option that is, ostensibly: better for you, better for the environment, better for the farmers, better for the rest of the population, better for wildlife, and likely any of a number of other groups of people or things.<p>Do we know if any of this is true? No. Do we know if any of it is false? <i>No.</i><p>Does any of this really matter? I'd like to believe it does; it does for me. But I'm not convinced it does for most people.<p>We can argue that we <i>know</i> the above is true, but the data we have is relatively limited. Even when we have data, it isn't entirely clear what it is measuring, because people have such confused definitions of what "organic" actually means. It has nothing to do with local farmers; it has nothing to do with the complete elimination of pesticides, herbicides or fertilizers. It just limits the types of substances used, based on <i>origin,</i> not known health effects; organic farmers are required to use "natural" farming aids. What we have to go on is gut feelings that "natural," whatever we define that to mean, is "better." We also have the gut feeling that "artifical" things, whatever we define that to be, are "bad." This falls apart the instant someone points to something artifical that is better than the natural version -- as an example, please see Canola oil. But it can so fuel the senses that food we consider to be artificial will taste noticably worse. Does it? Who knows; we need more double-blind studies on this.<p>The problem is that the debate is working from an assumption <i>a priori,</i> that organic food <i>is</i> the better option, at least by the organic proponents. I am not pro-conventional food; I don't believe that most of the people who still buy conventional produce <i>are</i> that religious about it. They'd like to see data on both sides of the debate, and would like to sit down and have a reasonable pro-con discussion. But that can't happen when one side of the debate is screaming "YOU'RE KILLING YOURSELF AND THE PLANET!" It's like the guy who buys the more expensive car seat while screaming at his neighbor "YOU'RE KILLING YOUR CHILD!" The poor neighbor now has a choice: submit to the religious fervor of expensive car seats, or deal with the continued condescention of his neighbor.<p>We need to start having a rational discussion about this; I'm surprised, given the level-headedness by which we approach other topics, that we are so unabashedly biased on this one. Maybe it's just a vocal minority?
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mark_l_watson超过 15 年前
I can't agree with him about organic food health benefits. When you eat industrially raised food (oil based fertilizer) you get a smaller spectrum of minerals, etc.<p>And, as my young grandson once said: "why would anyone want to eat food with bug spray on it?"<p>That said, it is a matter of free choice - my wife and I gladly pay slightly higher prices for locally grown organic food. If not organic, we then at least favor locally grown food.
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