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Tim Cook on iMessage Security: It’s Encrypted, and We Don’t Have a Key

146 点作者 Tangokat超过 10 年前

23 条评论

pilif超过 10 年前
There is zero control over what public keys get handed over to your phone to encrypt an iMessage with. For all we know, whenever you want to send a message to $USER, your phone gets a public key for $USERs iPhone, her iPad and the NSA master key.<p>Tim Cook can state that they can&#x27;t decrypt the message all he wants, but as long as there&#x27;s no control over what public keys we encrypt the message with, the statement that Apple or the NSA can&#x27;t read the messages is a half-truth at best.<p>Don&#x27;t use iMessage for anything you wouldn&#x27;t be using email for. Assume every message you send over iMessage to be public.<p><i>&gt;If the government laid a subpoena to get iMessages, we can’t provide it. It’s encrypted and we don’t have a key. And so it’s sort of — the door is closed.</i><p>But the government can (and probably has) force you to have the phones send a copy of every message to some government server encrypted with the government&#x27;s public key. They don&#x27;t need to subpoena messages - they already got them all.
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yeahmayb超过 10 年前
&quot;Our business is not based on having information about you. You’re not our product. Our product are these, and this watch, and Macs and so forth. And so we run a very different company. I think everyone has to ask, how do companies make their money? Follow the money. And if they’re making money mainly by collecting gobs of personal data, I think you have a right to be worried. And you should really understand what’s happening to that data. And companies I think should be very transparent about it.&quot;<p>Honestly, I am starting to see the wisdom behind consumers choosing the companies with these kinds of business models. Its not that I dont trust the companies -- I guess its that I accept that governments and laws transcend companies and their explicit arrangements with their consumers.
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gear54rus超过 10 年前
These statements again... Time to get some downvotes, I guess.<p>How do I know? How <i>can</i> I even know that YOUR own device for which YOU wrote software and YOU designed hardware (although it may be based on some <i>standards</i>, no one can guarantee it&#x27;s unmodified) won&#x27;t share my private information with YOU?<p>How can I know that you&#x27;re not sending my private key encrypted with your server&#x27;s public key (one simple example of many) to your side?<p>Am I supposed to take your word on it? No thanks.<p>As much as I&#x27;m against Apple and their policy, these statements make no sense from anyone (Google, Apple, whatever). Unless you design your own phone from scratch, you can not be sure that it is <i>secure</i> (however, when you do that, all medium your phone may use is still not secure). It is simply not worth it. Anything in digital world is not secure (only a matter of attacker&#x27;s determination and resources available to them) and there is no point in saying otherwise.
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epoxyhockey超过 10 年前
Apple is a PRISM participant, as of Oct 2012 (one year after Steve Jobs died). I highly doubt any iMessage is more secure than a plain text SMS sent via any cell carrier&#x27;s network. Apple probably offers a sexy interface for the Feds to read everything.<p>Reference: <a href="http://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/prism-slide-51.jpg" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com&#x2F;2013&#x2F;06&#x2F;prism-sl...</a>
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Luker88超过 10 年前
It&#x27;s Encrypted, and We Don&#x27;t Have a Key. But it&#x27;s not open source so you don&#x27;t get to check. ... and we control the key distribution. We also do control your device, so <i>technically</i>, we don&#x27;t need the key.<p>Fixed that for him.
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samirahmed超过 10 年前
Is actually possible to not have the ability to decrypt messages remotely?<p>At first I thought that if just an iphone held the encryption keys and these were not on apple servers this statement could be true ...<p>however considering that imessage can be setup on a Mac and an iPhone via your Apple ID ... its more likely that this statement is just hyperbole for the Apple&#x27;s approach to privacy
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lnanek2超过 10 年前
That isn&#x27;t really definitive, because the NSA has required companies to change software to capture keys before. There was an encrypted email company who was told they have to start recording private keys used in their web client.
scragg超过 10 年前
&gt; we finally got an agreement from the administration to release how many times we had national security orders on Apple. And in a six month period, and we had to release a range, because they won’t let us say the exact number, it’s between zero and 250. That’s the lowest number you can quote. Zero to 250.<p>So does anyone else think this might be a bad number (being so low)? If the NSA had access to everything, wouldn&#x27;t you expect the official requests for data to be low and not because Apple doesn&#x27;t store data or it&#x27;s all encrypted anyway as Cook implies.
natch超过 10 年前
This statement is not enough... there could still be a third party (e.g. law enforcement) with a key or for more plausible deniability, a portion of a key (n bits out of N), and the statement would still be true. If they can do so truthfully, they should also state that nobody else other than the user has a key or any portion of a key, and that there are no keys or portions of keys in escrow where anybody else can conceivably get at them.
aespinoza超过 10 年前
Honestly, I really don&#x27;t care if they have the key or not. My concern is if they can read my messages. I am more worried about backdoors added to iMessage by Apple. This is known to happen often in Apple products, maybe for the purpose of Development or Support, but it is still there. That is exactly what I want to know. Because if Apple can use that backdoor, a patient hacker can too.
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kristianp超过 10 年前
Apparently skype uses encryption, according to:<p><a href="https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA31/does-skype-use-encryption" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;support.skype.com&#x2F;en&#x2F;faq&#x2F;FA31&#x2F;does-skype-use-encrypt...</a>
tolmasky超过 10 年前
He should instead just have said &quot;Have you <i>tried</i> iMessage?? Its a disaster, we couldn&#x27;t pull messages out of there even if we wanted to. Be thankful anything shows up on the screen at all!&quot;
skuhn超过 10 年前
It&#x27;s nice to see that he thinks user privacy is something valuable, and that this is an issue worth talking about. However, I think he&#x27;s really only addressing one of the three ways that user data can be compromised when it&#x27;s held by a company:<p>1. Selling or using it internally (e.g. Google&#x27;s ad targeting)<p>2. Stolen by criminals (e.g. Apple&#x27;s recent snafu)<p>3. Requisitioned by the government (e.g. Yahoo&#x27;s daily fines for refusing to join PRISM)<p>Data that isn&#x27;t collected in the first place can&#x27;t be lost, but that isn&#x27;t always possible (and it often defeats the entire purpose of the service).<p>I think he&#x27;s mostly talking about the first one, that Apple hasn&#x27;t built their business around harvesting user data to feed advertising or other systems. I think that&#x27;s laudable. I would rather a company focus their energies on one product, rather than selling a byproduct of their real money maker. I also don&#x27;t really like being the fuel for a free service -- I&#x27;d rather pay for what I use and have everything above board.<p>Security is where I think Apple has its biggest problem with user privacy. Relative to companies like Google, they just aren&#x27;t very good at running Internet services. Despite operating several huge services (iTunes, a CDN that handles iOS updates, iCloud, etc.), they aren&#x27;t an Internet company at heart. Google and others are leaps and bounds above them in this regard.<p>They can improve this with hiring and changing the culture in those groups, and I think they started this process a year or two ago. It will take some time, and they&#x27;re never going to be the world&#x27;s best at this stuff.<p>Tim Cook touches on the third point a little, and some people think he is being disingenuous in his description of how iMessage works. I think that it doesn&#x27;t really matter. It&#x27;s great that Apple has designed a system that places an emphasis on keeping user conversations private, but there is literally nothing that they can do about government interference if they want to continue operating as a legal entity.<p>I hope that they do everything in their power to curb government overreach. Ultimately the government will get what they want. Simply building a system designed to keep you from accessing the data that flows through it is not sufficient: you will be forced to subvert that system or face serious consequences.<p>I strongly believe that the only way people will ever have privacy from the government again is to decentralize the Internet and the services that run on it. I doubt that a political solution is possible now that pandora&#x27;s box has been opened, and it seems like it will only become more widespread as companies have to answer to more governments around the world and the technology to broadly intercept traffic becomes more commonplace.
lazylizard超过 10 年前
erm. &quot;with every mention of &#x27;encryption&#x27; comes the issue of &#x27;key management&#x27;? &quot; ?<p>and possibly a subset of &#x27;key management&#x27;, &#x27;key exchange&#x27;..?
Istof超过 10 年前
all these claims are worthless when you are not even administrator on the device you use... (they have access to your messages before they get encrypted...)
autism_hurts超过 10 年前
Wasn&#x27;t there a leaked FBI PowerPoint that very explicitly stated that they can&#x27;t intercept iMessages? (and it was a point of frustration)
Thesaurus超过 10 年前
Jobs is rolling over in his graves, Cook is a shill. Jobs kept the five-eyes out of Apple&#x27;s shit until he croaked.
ganessh超过 10 年前
But the NSA do have the keys :p just kidding
ruuki超过 10 年前
The tech heroes of our age are becoming some kind of politicians, this is very sad.
KaiserPro超过 10 年前
Does that mean its just a ROT13 cipher? I mean its <i>technically</i> encrypted, but also doesn&#x27;t need a key...
atmosx超过 10 年前
Let&#x27;s take this to the extreme: If you are <i>threat</i> to the NSA, you&#x27;d use an iPhone to send a message because Tim Cook said it&#x27;s <i>encrypted</i>?<p>YES - NO - I DON&#x27;T KNOW<p>ps. Let&#x27;s wait for Apple to do a better job at keeping private naked pictures people make for fun using an iPhone and we&#x27;ll talk iMessage encryption later.
chj超过 10 年前
&quot;we don&#x27;t have a key, at this moment&quot;. Come on, Apple is still able to get your messages. Next time when you set up your iPhone, and if the messages are downloaded to your new device, you know they have access as well.
hadoukenio超过 10 年前
3 words - National Security Letter.<p>Take what Timmy says with a grain of salt, until they should you the source code. Oh wait...<p>Apple fan boys: bring on the downvotes, but enjoy your surveilling
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