Ask HN: Where have all the coders gone?

Does anyone have any idea on how "hard" it is to create software? The toll on a person who is "tearing it up", without break, for a year. Oh, and not for their direct benefit?<p>You are seeking a person in the upper percentile of intelligence, fluent in a specialized skill set and asking them to pull off some solo Death March that should require 5-10 people minimum, and for what, to be the "coder" while the idea man is running around with half-cent business cards with CEO in front of their name.<p>Assume this person _is_ this smart, maybe even smarter than you, most likely he too has realized its easier to be the idea man than to be the guy who has to do all the work.<p>Ergo the world is stuffed with idea men and suffers a dearth of doers.

I think you should post a job offer. Nice sentiments are appreciated, of course, but people actually might want to know about you first and what you want done. Otherwise your post has plenty of warm feelings and zero information, as it is.

I hate this "rockstar coder" thing. Whenever I see a job offer where they're looking for a "rockstar coder" I'm automatically repulsed, I always think the company is run by 2x year old fanboys who believe everything they read.<p>Who describes themselves as a "rockstar coder"? If you're young and realistic about it, you can't have enough experience to tell. Most good experienced programmers I know are modest people and would never describe themselves as "rockstars" and would never apply to such an offer.<p>This seems to be a way to get "arrogant coders" to apply...

Hmm, "just starting out," "loves tearing it up," and "results oriented." So you want someone young that you can work to death and not pay very much? What exactly are you offering that would make such a person want to work for you? Whatever Seth Godin is telling you, we developers are people that are motivated by more than developing code for free so that business people can get rich. Maybe you can't find these great developers because they don't think you offer them anything that they couldn't get from every other nontechnical person that just wants to exploit them. I don't see one thing in your post that suggests that you do.

I don't know about other programmers but I got out of the game. I still program for myself but I got sick of people asking me for miracles. I was to make them happen but it drained me every time and was consuming my life. The other programmers had a more balanced view (corporate programmers) and didn't think about programming outside of office hours but I couldn't do that. I tried working for a couple of startups but they all failed so I decided to change industries. Programing is essentially problem solving and problem solving can be used almost anywhere. I still program on my own projects but not during work hours and to be honest it feels great.

Aah, the elusive <i>rockstar</i> coder.<p>I would suggest you rewording when looking for a coder as in your case: explain briefly what is expected of them, what they would be doing, the technologies/languages in use. If those are too specific or have not decided yet, then you're looking for a technical co-founder instead of a coder.

We're hiding from you! Check behind the couch

There are loads. They want lots of money, no management bullshit, and respect - otherwise they'll just go do their own thing.

All the good ones are probably working on their own ideas.

Ok. So you are a real coder looking for a real coder. 1 : Take no care to the resumes. Do not let anyone filter postulants. 2 : Recieve yourself everyone 3 : You'll know in a matter of minutes if he's a real coder or no. Well, if you're a Real Coder.<p>=&#62; Anoying but small invest of your time. That pays.

See, there is a fundamental problem with this. You, as a non coder, will NEVER be able to tell who is and who isn't a "rock star". And odds are, your dream coder will probably not want to work with you. Unless of course you're working on something really cool with a bunch of other really smart coders.

I am sorry to say this.<p><pre><code> Coding is no longer treated as adding value to the company.</code></pre>

linkedin or meetup.com is a good place to start. Otherwise try a local software house, but they may not help much with requirements or take equity - and you'll pay high prices, but at least you can meet physically and get the ball rolling.

if you're looking for someone who's "starting out" and is "the dream coder" at the same time, you're most likely looking in the wrong places indeed...

<p><pre><code> Long time passing. Girls picked them every one. </code></pre> But seriously, these kinds of coders are very difficult to get your hands on, you might want to go read some of Joel Spolsky's writtings on how to interview programmers.<p>The basic problem, as you have found, is that the greatest programmers aren't looking for a job, not even now during a recession, and certainly not with you.<p>Standard advice involve networking, showing up at user groups, trade conferences, et cetera.<p>These can take a long time to work however, so in your case I would take a look at how to make your company more interesting for the type of people you want to attract.<p>Try to look at your company as and outsider might do:<p>1)What would a great programmer love about the work? Because , as you might as well face now, you are not going to get anybody really good really excited about the prospect of maintaining an in house Java ERP system. You would have a good chance to get one to work on a new system build in Clojure though.<p>2)How are your managers going to treat people? The old fashioned manager based on the military/factory hierarchy or the new get out of the way so the people can do awesome work while I watch their back politically?<p>3)This is something you might not have thought about, but do you really need this type of person? They are way better technically, but Joe the coder is going to be way easier to satisfy, employ, manage, keep around and replace. You don't need the rangers to take Berlin, you need a lot of expendable barely literate soldiers.<p>Anyway this is just a few things you might want to think about.