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Elon Musk argues that putting a million people on Mars ensures humanity's future

322 点作者 todayiamme超过 10 年前

38 条评论

chc超过 10 年前
All this talk of sending people to Mars seems like putting the cart before the horse. If you have the technogy to not die on Mars, why not start with, say, underwater cities on Earth? At least there you&#x27;d have a ready supply of several life-supporting elements that would be absent on Mars. As it is, we&#x27;ve never tried to ensure anybody&#x27;s long-term survival under conditions anywhere near as harsh as Mars — no air, no nitrogen, no readily available water, no indigenous animals to hunt, no fossil fuels, no geothermal energy, no hydro or windmills.<p>I never see plans to get around this with real-world technology — it&#x27;s always just hand-waved as something we&#x27;ll figure out. But it seems like the &quot;letting people live natural lives under utterly inhospitable conditions&quot; part has a lot more to do with ensuring humanity&#x27;s survival than the Mars part.
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kibwen超过 10 年前
Every time that this argument is made, I can&#x27;t help but wonder if the mere existence of a sustainable off-world colony would cause humans on Earth to give even less of a damn about maintaining a habitable planet. A sort of moral hazard (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_hazard" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Moral_hazard</a>) on an interplanetary scale. Which is to ask, could colonizing other worlds actually accelerate the destruction of human civilization, rather than ensure it?<p>As an alternative to possibly engendering environmental apathy, imagine a scenario akin to the Cold War, except that one of the superpowers has a million citizens on Mars, and the other doesn&#x27;t. Does MAD still apply, or does the interplanetary superpower suddenly becoming all the more willing to watch the world burn?
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jimktrains2超过 10 年前
To the nay-sayers here:<p>“What if Columbus had been told, ‘Chris, baby, don’t go now. Wait until we’ve solved our number one priorities — war and famine; poverty and crime; pollution and disease; illieracy and racial hatred—and Queen Isabella’s own personal brand of ‘interal security’‘” – W.I.E. Gates<p>Humans are capable of doing multiple things at once. Some people working on space travel doesn&#x27;t preclude others from working to slow (can we even reverse at this point) climate change.
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api超过 10 年前
This is an example of an actual &quot;first world problem.&quot;<p>Other first world problems include:<p>* Decarbonizing energy and achieving a sustainable energy and transportation infrastructure. (Not coincidentally Elon&#x27;s also doing work in that area.)<p>* Curing the diseases of aging and achieving significant life extension.<p>* Augmenting and enhancing human intelligence.<p>* Closing natural resource cycles to achieve a much higher rate of recycling and lower overall resource consumption.<p>* Discovering new positive-sum solutions to the conflict between economic liberty and economic fairness &#x2F; wealth distribution. These problems are probably game theoretic in nature and will probably require thinking at that level.<p>* Unifying quantum mechanics with general relativity and unlocking a comprehensive and coherent understanding of ultimate physical reality.<p>* Achieving a true holistic comprehension of the language of genetics and inheritance that goes far beyond &quot;a gene for X&quot; correlation-fishing.
AndrewKemendo超过 10 年前
This is one of the only articles I have read that keeps Musk&#x27;s Mars vision in check with doses of reality throughout:<p><i>On Mars, the best we can expect is a crude habitat, erected by robots...US colonies from Roanoke to Jamestown suffered similar social breakdowns, in environments that were Edenic by comparison...For all we know, revolutions in energy, artificial intelligence and materials science could be imminent. Any one of them would make human spaceflight a much easier affair.</i><p>The only thing that makes me feel better is that Musk seems to not be thinking through it all the way...and I mean that in the best way possible. At this point, from what I can tell he&#x27;s still an evangelist and isn&#x27;t putting resources to solving the minutiae of how to live on Mars.<p>He is so laser focused on the logistics that he likely wants to leave practicalities of the biology problem to someone else.
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throwaway_yy2Di超过 10 年前
What sort of existential risk is this supposed to protect against? The articles&#x27; examples are all wrong (these aren&#x27;t Musk&#x27;s examples):<p><pre><code> &quot;A billion years will give us four more orbits of the Milky Way galaxy, any one of which could bring us into collision with another star, or a supernova shockwave, or the incinerating beam of a gamma ray burst. We could swing into the path of a rogue planet, one of the billions that roam our galaxy darkly, like cosmic wrecking balls. Planet Earth could be edging up to the end of an unusually fortunate run.&quot; </code></pre> Rogue planets are categorically not a threat to earth [0] -- the &quot;cosmic wrecking ball&quot; is pure fiction. And you get no risk reduction from supernovas &#x2F; GRBs by spreading out across planets -- even collimated GRB &quot;beams&quot; are several degrees wide [1], a spot size light-years across (inner solar system is merely light-minutes across). Actually, those things aren&#x27;t existential risks to a very advanced earth: their strongest effect is severe damage to the ozone layer [2], which other planets don&#x27;t have in the first place..<p>(I&#x27;m not at all dismissing exotic existential risks. But is this a solution, or is it &quot;We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.&quot;)<p>[0] <a href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/05/19/are-we-in-danger-from-a-rogue-planet/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;blogs.discovermagazine.com&#x2F;badastronomy&#x2F;2011&#x2F;05&#x2F;19&#x2F;ar...</a><p>[1] <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-ray_burst#Energetics_and_beaming" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Gamma-ray_burst#Energetics_and...</a><p>[2] <a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/0903.4710" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;arxiv.org&#x2F;abs&#x2F;0903.4710</a>
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x1798DE超过 10 年前
I think this is a good long-term goal, but one thing that&#x27;s missing from this analysis is the urgency of the thing. Right now, we&#x27;ve never even put <i>one</i> person on Mars, and keeping any significant Martian population alive would be a considerable expense. The cost in human labor and materials would certainly have to be diverted from other enterprises, as is the case with all economic actions.<p>Given that we are on an exponential growth curve both in terms of technology and wealth, it seems likely to me that by the natural course of things 100 years from now maintaining an extraplanetary base on Mars would be much cheaper and easier, and would disrupt our growth rates much less, if at all. It may be that by acting now, it would take us 200 years to create a self-sustaining population on Mars, whereas if we wait 100 years, we&#x27;ll be able to get something up and running in just an additional 50 years, thus better insulating us from disaster (consider that until the Mars colony is completely self-sufficient, it will likely be wiped out by <i>any</i> disaster on Earth, even disasters that aren&#x27;t a real threat to our species, as long as we don&#x27;t have enough surplus wealth to sustain an expensive Mars colony).
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kokey超过 10 年前
I&#x27;m somewhat taken by surprise by the negative comments on here. I couldn&#x27;t agree with him more.
macspoofing超过 10 年前
Ok sure. Let&#x27;s try tackling immediate issues that have huge implications on our survival like climate change, before we make plans to send thousands of people to a place more inhospitable than Antarctica.<p>Colonization is a pipe-dream in our immediate future.
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tslug超过 10 年前
If you take the work involved in keeping a closed, armored, pressurized habitat viable on Mars and instead direct it to create a closed, armored, pressurized habitat viable underwater or underground on Earth, you should get the same insurance policy at a considerably lower cost.
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oskarth超过 10 年前
To all the naysayers and party poopers in this thread, I would like to bring to your attention the following excerpt:<p><i>Calling multi-planetary life an insurance policy “for life as we know it,” the 40-year-old physicist&#x2F;entrepreneur&#x2F;inventor warned that catastrophic natural or man-made disasters -- such as the planetoid collision that wiped out the dinosaurs eons ago or nuclear holocaust or climate change -- could someday wipe out humankind.<p>Space exploration “is the next natural step” in the 3.8-billion year evolution of life on earth, he said.<p>Musk suggested that .25% of the nation&#x27;s gross domestic product would be an “appropriate” expenditure by the United States on space exploration, which he said is roughly the percentage an individual spends on life insurance. Space exploration spending, he said, should be &quot;much less than we spend on health care, but maybe more than we spend on lipstick.&quot;</i> (<a href="http://press.org/news-multimedia/news/space-exploration-critical-human-survival-spacex-entrepreneur-elon-musk-says" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;press.org&#x2F;news-multimedia&#x2F;news&#x2F;space-exploration-crit...</a>)<p>Now, before you start complaining about climate change, gamma rays and comparing him to a disillusioned clown, answer the question: is it reasonable for us to spend more money on space exploration than lipstick?<p>EDIT: Talk about people missing the point. Keep on hating, just let Musk and people like him do their thing. Luckily, online comments have very little influence on the world.
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CPLX超过 10 年前
Did he mention anything about telephone sanitizers and account executives?
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scottjad超过 10 年前
Hi, my name is Elon, and I have a great idea! We should tax Americans $42 billion&#x2F;year indefinitely and pay much of that money to my company SpaceX. We&#x27;ll build something on Mars, eventually, if possible.<p>Let&#x27;s have the US Congress fund this because as we all know they, like me, have no conflicts of interest, make decisions based purely on the science, have a very low time preference, are good stewards and very wise spenders, and plan for the future. And if Congress funds it then Americans must be willing to pay for it because, ta da, democracy!<p>I&#x27;m pleased to announce that I have made a personal and very generous contribution of $10 million to increase public awareness about the need for this project.<p>You&#x27;re welcome humanity.
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diydsp超过 10 年前
As humans, we tend to see things through our own lenses.<p>I happen to believe that if everyone played music together once a week, humanity&#x27;s future would be preserved through the effects of mutual cooperation, trust and survival information communicated through music.<p>Clowns probably believe humanity&#x27;s future is ensured through everyone laughing at squirting flowers and Bill Gates probably believes curing malaria will ensure our future.<p>These are all overly-biased, myopic views which when stretched to the point of determining the fate of the entire human race become equally absurd. They&#x27;re little more than attention-seeking plays.
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cyphunk超过 10 年前
How I read this: Man argues that because we cant get away from the competitive nature of the male dominance that pushes society into its gluttony for growth (&quot;Get that GDP up!&quot;) we have no alternate but to find new sources to exploit for growth.<p>While I admire Musk for his accomplishments this is no reason for us to follow his lead in ignoring the core of the problem. I&#x27;m all for absurdity masked as &quot;vision&quot; except when it distracts from serious problems. This is not really a critique of musk. His push for electric cars shows clearly he&#x27;s both concerned as much with saving this environment as he is with leaving it. I&#x27;m just not sure great attention from the public to this idea of Mars inspires that same balance.<p>Finally, to entertain the idea of a colony on Mars is pretty much tantamount acknowledging you&#x27;re lineage is going to die off. You do notice he said 1 million people. So I ask the proponents, are you really worried about the survival of humanity or does this issue touch some other motives? Perhaps just the novelty of it. Perhaps the relief it gives you from not having to waste as many neurons on thinking about ecological complexity and the economic complexity it carries.<p>In the same manner that Musk would say &quot;fuck Earth&quot; why can&#x27;t we just say &quot;fuck civilisation&quot;. I&#x27;m certain microbes and life on earth will continue onward long after we are gone.
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bilalhusain超过 10 年前
server is throwing a 500<p>Here&#x27;s link to Google cache: <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:http://aeon.co/magazine/technology/the-elon-musk-interview-on-mars/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.com&#x2F;search?q=cache:http:&#x2F;&#x2F;aeon.co&#x2F;magazine...</a>
rottyguy超过 10 年前
I find an interesting intersection with his Tesla efforts (and perhaps more grand, the battery plant in Nevada)that can potentially provide mechanical autonoma on said colony without the need for fossil fuels and their high initial investment costs. Is he picking his earth bound investments in a manner that could carry forward into space?
dxbydt超过 10 年前
I asked my wife &quot;do you want to go to Mars?&quot; She was in the other room with my noisy kid and she yelled back &quot;No let&#x27;s go in April&quot;<p>Took me a while to process that:) The comments here seem to have the same sort of disconnect from what Mr. Musk is actually proposing. One gentleman suggests the only thing that&#x27;s holding him back is the lack of a suitable Martian school district. Forget Martian teachers, or even a single Martian school - he wants an entire Martian district of schools so he can A&#x2F;B test his way to the best one for his kid. Well, more power to him! At this rate, forget Mars, going to Mountain View for the 90 day yc gig seems a formidable exploration - what are you going to do about the school district there?
whiteshadow超过 10 年前
They say things like, “Nature is so wonderful; things are always better in the countryside where there are no people around.” They imply that humanity and civilisation are less good than their absence. But I’m not in that school,’ he said. ‘I think we have a duty to maintain the light of consciousness, to make sure it continues into the future.’<p>Agreed that humanity can have a more positive impact of the world&#x2F;universe, but this seemed to be a statement that humanity is above all things, including nature. Nature should be respected and we should have our boundaries. It is dangerous to think that human can play god, or have some kind of superior ownership of the universe.
mNemoN超过 10 年前
Well, this is phantasmagory. The mars has actually very low magnetic shield and almost no atmosphere. The core of mars, which should generate this kind of field, as earth do, is burned out. There is no way how to create and sustain a sufficient atmosphere to colonize this planet. What worse the earth come to this point soon or later and solar wind flush all atmosphere and vegetation and there will be another mars on solar orbit. Humankind should focus to leave this world and transcend to another form of life :))))
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mironathetin超过 10 年前
Colonizing Mars is a cool project, no doubt. But in order to let humanity survive, I personally would focus on earth. We must develop ways to live in balance with nature. And we should have started yesterday.<p>WWF just released its annual report. Shocking. <a href="http://www.worldwildlife.org/publications" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.worldwildlife.org&#x2F;publications</a>
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bayesianhorse超过 10 年前
The money&#x2F;resources necessary to put one million people on Mars with a self-sustainable industrial base would be better spent trying to stave off disaster on our home world. It&#x27;s easier, cheaper and faster to detect and deflect asteroids than building that colony...<p>Not that building colonies in space wouldn&#x27;t be a good idea for other reasons.
al2o3cr超过 10 年前
Technically, I suspect we could improve humanity&#x27;s chances by launching a million-person mission to the <i>Sun</i>. The tricky bit is figuring out which million people to put in the rocket...
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jabberwock超过 10 年前
It seems like we have a long way to go when we&#x27;re still struggling with servers that can handle a few hundred requests per second.<p>Edit: Drats, I spoke too soon. The server seems to up now.
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thirdtruck超过 10 年前
Yes. All of the digital backups in the world won&#x27;t help the species after a global catastrophe unless we have some human operators backed up somewhere offsite.
ilitirit超过 10 年前
The site is down, but does he mention why thought ought to be 1 million is enough? Why not 100000? Why not 5000?
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Vadoff超过 10 年前
Or we could just limit people to having 2 kids, and most of our population&#x2F;environmental problems are gone.
dosh超过 10 年前
After reading this and &quot;the everything store,&quot; I wonder what Jeff Bezos &amp; Blue Origin (which started in 2000) would feel about Elon&#x27;s recent endeavors with SpaceX (started in 2002), considering his highly competitive character.
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hughdbrown超过 10 年前
You first. I am not relocating to Mars and trying to raise my kids in non-existent school districts.<p>Or: Earth has a lot of advantages over Mars. Why would you totally diminish your life&#x27;s possibilities and leave?
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Thiz超过 10 年前
Plus another million on the moon. Just in case.
rcyn超过 10 年前
I think it was Saramago who said &quot;Either we are blind or we are mad,&quot; sending people into space rather than fixing problems here. Humanity should face its mistakes.
iand超过 10 年前
Someone needs to introduce him to <a href="http://www.mars-one.com/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mars-one.com&#x2F;</a>
davidy123超过 10 年前
OK, he can go first.
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Datsundere超过 10 年前
its better to habitat earth like planets.
msoad超过 10 年前
Elon Mask is really smart. He know how to keep his name in headlines all the time. This kind of arguments are nothing but tools for gaining more publicity
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UltraMagnus超过 10 年前
So, Musk is doing PR for the new Chris Nolan movie, now? I don&#x27;t remember seeing it in the trailers for Interstellar, but did the rockets have the SpaceX logo on them?<p>&quot;to ensure humanity&#x27;s future&quot; This guy...unbelievable.
bikamonki超过 10 年前
Define &#x27;future&#x27;. A million years? What when the Sun has swallowed the Earth and Mars? I don&#x27;t think biological humans will colonize space, not even the Moon, digital humans will. The Singularity is coming, hopefully within our lifespan.
billiam超过 10 年前
I hate to say it, but I am well and truly tired of this flim flam man. This latest gambit is surely the most cynical plot of them all. He really is the latest Steve Jobs, whose marketing genius was imagining a never-ending string of products that define a superior class of people.<p>The Musk M.O:<p>1. Identify industry with big inefficiencies that depends on huge government subsidies. That&#x27;s cars, commercial space vehicles, mass transit and now: colonizing another planet with the 0.1%.<p>2. Convince the media and envious government officials you are Tom Swift, boy inventor. Have these governments fight over how many billions to give you to build your space car factory.<p>2. Use these taxpayer dollars and gigantic tax breaks to create iconic products and services for the elite class, effectively transferring huge dollars from the poor to the rich.<p>3. Rinse and repeat.<p>I see no evidence at all that Musk cares any more about technologies to enable several billion of us to live together without slaughtering each other than he does about money
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