Hi everyone,<p>My father, who is a 56-years old software engineer and introduced me to software development, got unemployed some months ago and is having an extremely tough time getting a job here in Spain.<p>In his whole life he has worked as a developer, businessmen and executive at various companies such as Xerox.
However, he went the developer path these past decades instead of moving on to something more 'senior oriented' such as being a project manager.<p>He has been always learning new stuff, so right now he has a MongoDB certification and is totally fluent in Django. But most of the companies he applies to just see his age and step back.
And I'm also worried because here in Spain large companies are seeing the crisis and the really high youth unemployment as an opportunity to hire youngsters under really poor conditions, and they can actually hire five young developers for the price of one senior dev.<p>So I'm not really sure how I can help him, I actually know a lot of people in the startup ecosystem but startups usually want people in their 20s and 30s. I have also read a lot of posts regarding 'old developers', and he has read them as well.<p>He has a fresh mindset, wants to move to another city/country if it's required, and has tons of experience, so it's very hard for me to see him having this tough time... Any tip would be very helpful<p>Thanks a lot
"Spain" seems like the magic phrase here. Unemployment in Spain is 24.5% right now.<p><a href="https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=spain%20unemployment%20rate" rel="nofollow">https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&e...</a><p>Meanwhile unemployment in the UK is 6.2% right now.<p><a href="https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=england+unemployment+rate" rel="nofollow">https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&e...</a><p>I suggest looking for a job in London. A lot of tech companies are hiring there.
The advice is the same to everyone. Work hard on personal projects, get them online and live and running and impressive. Join a well known open source project and do 200 commits. Tweet, blog regularly. Prove you know your stuff.<p>Same advice for everyone. Almost no one does this stuff and those that do greatly increase their chance of getting work.<p>People sit around hoping not to have to do the hard yards, hoping they'll somehow be given a job. In 2014 you have to make it happen through active, public work.<p>If you build enough of an online reputation then you'll get work without even meeting people and they wouldn't know if you were an 80 year old giraffe.
I don't know if his will help:<p>I am 63, and I realize that I might not be as effective as I once was. What I do is offer a really low rate for telecommuting from home, and a much larger rate when working on site. So, for the last many years, I work cheaply from home and occasionally work on site (most recently at Google) for a much better consulting rate.<p>I don't know if your father has the financial flexibility to follow my plan, but it works for me.
Remote work online is absolutely going to be his best bet, and it will pay better.<p>Check out:<p><a href="https://weworkremotely.com/" rel="nofollow">https://weworkremotely.com/</a><p><a href="http://hnhiring.com/" rel="nofollow">http://hnhiring.com/</a> (search for "remote")<p><a href="http://remotenation.co/blog/top-5-sites-for-finding-a-remote-developer-or-designer-job" rel="nofollow">http://remotenation.co/blog/top-5-sites-for-finding-a-remote...</a>
Drop me a line at my username @gmail.com if he would consider working for a startup based on SF but with its engineering team based on Guadalajara, México. We mostly do django, flask and angularjs and are not worried on getting someone with his experience on our team.
I'm not convinced that 56 is that old for companies, especially large ones. I'm not sure this is anything more than the current financial problems that Spain is experiencing. There is 25% unemployment and many banks have purportedly been teetering on collapse. There simply may not be jobs available for him in Spain, unfortunately.<p>His best bet is to move around in the EU, and go to a country that is willing to hire him. Place like UK, France are likely doing better than Spain is, and will probably have more jobs.
I may be able to help. As a fellow Southern European (living in California), I make it a point to try to help people from that region with employment where I can.<p>I employ people (fully remotely) all over the world, and I help several other companies do the same (I assume basic professional/IT English). I'm not actively hiring right now, but I know a few companies who are.<p>My email is in my profile. Best of luck regardless.
This is crazy. Were I hiring, I'd kill to have someone that experienced and with likely far fewer "life liabilities" (I'm doubting he's going to start having babies or go absolutely insane over some girl he can't get out of his mind... or disappear playing video games for two weeks straight)<p>Have him keep at it. Someone will appreciate what he's got.
Everyone's going to advise leading-edge technology options.<p>Consider the other extreme: long-established businesses are desperate for developers capable of working on <i>old</i> systems like COBOL, 370 Assembler, etc. His "tons of experience" mean he is familiar with old-school tools & mindset, things which new developers can't fathom in a world of smartphones & clouds. Such developers made a pile of money 15 years ago when a burst of manpower was needed to solve the then-looming "Y2K bug"; those talents are still very much in demand, and there's a lot fewer developers able & willing to work on those systems.<p>Mainframe developers are still needed. Society isn't creating any more of them. Supply + demand = write your own check in this niche, so long as you'll work on anything anywhere.
Your father should try to find development work online. Nobody cares about your age, or even your qualifications. It's all about your track record and your capacity to get things done. It takes a while to get your first few gigs, but once you build up a small client base, work goes smoothly.
Ask him to email me. I have 100% success rate to find people like your father jobs, and I do not charge them anything, in fact I will pay him $1000 if I can't find him a job. zq@nemcv.com. I have helped other people on hacker news and never failed yet<p>How do I do this? Because I change the mindset away from looking for a job based on skills to showing the value your father can add to a company
We, Lifesum, are located in Stockholm and are looking all over the place for a senior backend engineer that can work with Python / Django! Please have him take a look at:
<a href="http://jobs.lifesum.com/jobs/1103-senior-platform-backend-python-engineer" rel="nofollow">http://jobs.lifesum.com/jobs/1103-senior-platform-backend-py...</a> and see if it's a good fit.<p>Feel free to contact me (info in profile) regarding any questions. :)
Spanish market is really tough these days, but it is possible to get a job.
- there are many possibilities in Madrid and Barcelona. Consider relocation.
- knowing Java or PHP can help further increasing possible job opportunities. I hardly hear that someone is looking for MongoDB developer.
- person with such experience is probably considered by HR to be demanding in terms of salary. I would not advise asking for more than 35k€.
- Also there might be a question: why still developer. I suppose there is a convincing explanation for that! (I also know many >40 years old people beeing developers).
- have a look at banks. santander & bbva usualy have some job offers. either directly or through some consulting company.<p>I hope your dad will finaly get some nice job!<p>-
I would suggest he start contributing to open source. Write a fea utility libraries or even a few general purpose applications. Being able to point people to a github with work to show off some skills can be integral to how employers view your technical aptitude.
Has he looked into finance? The UK banking scene is predominately in his age group (not that it matters). I'm 24 and worked in a team of people ranging from 30-60 i suppose. Also the sector is moving towards noSQL so it could be a good fit
I don't understand the reluctance of the industry to hire old people. I am young, and I love working with old people. They know their craft so well, they have so much experience, they have seen everything; they <i>do stuff</i>.<p>For comparison, I don't like working with young people. Always excited about new technologies, but they usually have no experience in anything and manage to delay every project and make a mess out of it. And there's also the meta-activities associated with young age. We don't just work, but we do all kind of meaningless forced social crap and boast about life and show our gadgets.<p>With older people, it's much more professional. It's just professional work, which gets done, and doesn't expand into our private lives.
What about freelancing ? Try and connect with people you know who might be looking for a developer like him. If he knows Python/Django, I am sure there are lot of freelance opportunities. Also ask him to post in the Monthly HN thread of freelancers.
Unfortunately if he can't get a job that pays what he's asking for based on experience, he'll need to lower his rate. Outside of getting into a more "senior" orientated industry as joshcrowder has suggested, banking, finance, etc.<p>However Xerox itself is a very senior-orientated company, at least here in New Zealand. Has he reached out to his network to see if there are any positions going where he'll get a palm greased?
I left Italy because I was looking at a future in which I would have been one of those 5 young devs that got hired instead of someone like your dad.<p>I am still young and am always relocating to find better projects and conditions, and its been working for me in this past 5 years. But now I know that there is also a lot of companies out there that are willing to hire people from across the globe and let them work remotely.<p>Those jobs are not easy to find, and are a small minority in the job market, but they are a beacon of hope for really good devs for which relocating is not an option. You (royal you ... which means potentially your dad) will generally get good money but might have to set up your own taxes, insurances and benefits, so it's not as hassle free as just being a normal employee.<p>Relocation, IMO, is always an option. Just speaking English is enough ... and English is not hard.
I can totally understand how hard can it be. I`m 28 years old from Romania and looking for an IT related job.
Its difficult and for me because i never had a 9-5 job. Always worked from home as a freelancer since college so i got no past experience and no one hires you without 2 years or more experience :(
Self Marketing. Age is definitely a road block, it might be worse in spain, but it happens everywhere else.<p>The thing is that if you provide nothing for potential employers to see, then all they would see is resume and eventually your age. Make him get out there, make friends, build connections, show case what he has done online, get potential employers to see past his resume and age. When you provide nothing for them to see, they'll see what's in front of them. That is an older man trying to live in a young man's world.<p>When you are an older developer, it'll definitely take more work to get hired. You have to do more to stand out. Just sending out resumes isn't gonna do much good in this day and age. Your connections is what going to get you hired. It's true in Spain, London, EU, Asia and everywhere else.
>"they can actually hire five young developers for the price of one senior dev"<p>I'm sure your dad's experience warrants a premium over others but anybody asking 5x what other devs make are going to have difficulty finding a job unless they have exceptional reputation, contacts and some luck.
BTW I forgot to add it on the post, but this is his LinkedIn profile just in case <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=75046358" rel="nofollow">https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=75046358</a>
I am 10 years younger than your father and had a though time finding a job too. I have a bachelor in Information Engineering, founded and sold two successful startups in the InfoSec space, have raised venture capital and love programming, but still took me about a year to find a job. Granted, I wasn't ready to compromise too much, but heck, as the months go by, it becomes more and more frustrating, especially when age seems to be the #1 discriminating factor.<p>I am moved by all the support shown here to your father: hopefully it will help him boost his morale. I encourage you to keep digging too - it's payback time.
I think startups usually want young employees because they usually don't have families. It's not really about age, it's about time commitment. All those startups with "epic snack rooms", beer coolers, ping pong tables, pool tables, etc. have all that crap because they expect you to live at the office. They want you to work 12 hours a day. Not all of them, but a lot of them. It can't really give that many hours if you have a spouse and kids to take care of. Most people can't, anyway.<p>It's not age discrimination, but it's still crappy.
My suggestion would be for him to learn FORTRAN or COBOL, if he doesn't already know. At least banks still need programmers for these languages, and I can assure you that not many youngsters learn those languages anymore. The work might be monotone, and he'll be fighting a 40 year old mainframe, but chances are that he won't have a problem finding a job.<p>He should send his CV here: <a href="http://www.geoban.com/es/estaticas/index.asp?wm=320&id=95" rel="nofollow">http://www.geoban.com/es/estaticas/index.asp?wm=320&id=95</a>
Does he have an up-to-date portfolio on what he's been working on? how are his side projects?<p>I think that's one of the most effective ways to convince someone that you haven't been resting on your laurels/are still innovating.<p>Also, he could take the chance (assuming you guys are not 3 steps from being on the curb) to try and bootstrap a small startup -- 56 years is a ton of experience, he has to know some pain points in some markets/communities that he can fix (maybe his own?) and charge people money for.
I am software Enginner from Colombia, I move last year from Spain to Dublin, at least 25% of the staff in the company where I work are in ther 50s, my suggestion, move to UK or Ireland
My advice is to apply his engineering skills to the job hunt itself. Send out CV's every day, network, hunt, analyze data, look for patterns, etc. As he is discovering, job hunting is a full time job.<p>In Canada, there are organizations for older job hunters that help with resume preparation and cover letters, job hunting techniques, how to network effectively, etc. Working with others in a similar situation is great for your morale. I wish him good luck.
I would recommend that he jump on Guru.com or eLance.com and start looking for projects. It is not ideal but it will keep him active as he searches for work.
The situation for developers in Europe currently isn't good. Forget those nonsense 'skilled worker shortage' articles. Europe's economic recovery does not proceed as fast as expected, forecasts are even lowered due to the sanctions against Russia. The 'best' you can do is sit and wait until next spring because spring usually is the high season of the IT job market.
Feel free to contact me if you want to move his CV in a couple of companies that I know are hiring (Salamanca and Valencia).<p>Good luck to you and your father
This may or may not be something that would interest him, but OpenStack is written in Python (no Django, but parts of it use MongoDB), and pretty much nobody who is deeply involved in OpenStack development has any shortage of recruiters trying to employ them.<p><a href="http://www.openstack.org/community/" rel="nofollow">http://www.openstack.org/community/</a>
Forget the job adds, they will only attract a lot of competition. What he needs to do is finding firms which are growing and send them a letter. This way he will sidestep that whole hiring process and the firms appreciate someone who takes an active approach.<p>And those who points out how important it is to be active on the net are right. At least set up a nice LinkedIn account.
I have to thank you all from the bottom of my heart for the overwhelming support, I never thought he would get all this help.<p>I'm an avid HN reader and a somewhat active member but never imagined this could go up to the frontpage, you all are awesome.<p>I told my father about all the opportunities and interesting comments here, and will continue helping him get a job. Thanks :)
Maybe he can edit his resume/CV and remove the date from items that would hint toward his age. This way the companies might give him the chance to show his experience in Django during an interview.<p>How about remote work within the European Union? I am in the US so I am not familiar with how common that is in Europe.
Is moving to somewhere like London an option for him? There's a lot of demand for good developers in London and the companies tend to not discriminate. I'm talking about more established companies especially.
Source: I previously worked for a company that hired a 55 year old developer.
There are a few conferences coming up in Barcelona, he could go to network?
<a href="http://www.papis.io/" rel="nofollow">http://www.papis.io/</a>
<a href="http://velocityconf.com/eu" rel="nofollow">http://velocityconf.com/eu</a>
Full respect for your father learning MongoDB and Django.
I do not see his age as an issue with that mindset. Maybe he can work remotely? Also may I recommend joining relevant IT recruitment interest groups on LinkedIn and Python/Django on Meetup.com.
Where in Spain? The author of the Typus gem (a Ruby admin tool) lives in / freelances from Barcelona. Your dad may want to reach out to him for tips or advice.<p><a href="https://github.com/fesplugas" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/fesplugas</a>
If it helps, we work with startups/brands/agencies that primarily hire remote developers across a range of languages at FlexDevs:
<a href="http://FlexDevs.com" rel="nofollow">http://FlexDevs.com</a>
I just want to say that I know your situation and just encourage him to keep doing something and not sit in a chair waiting for something. Psychological problems come and they are not easy.<p>Wish you both the best of luck.
Luis, We're recruiting for mongo experts—and happen to use django too for other parts of our system. We're an early stage co based in SF & NYC. -- Lindsay (lindsay (at) socialight.io)
A 25 years old programmer in a country similar to spain will get 1100€ per month.<p>A 56 yo will probably expect much more, and companies won't be willing to... I mean, they are just evil.
not sure how helpful this will be since we won't have a ton of activity at first, but Hired is about to launch in the UK. we'll be taking candidates all over Europe although we'll only have a London office until sometime next year. if he's interested in moving up there, it's worth a shot. his skillset sounds relevant. <a href="http://join.hired.com/x/WF25Mp" rel="nofollow">http://join.hired.com/x/WF25Mp</a>
with his experience, he should set up a virtual classroom through Hangouts or Skype and make enough of a living short term tutoring people who want to learn how to code fast. Maybe he would not be able to offer certification and diplomas but there is enough interest in learning programming internationally that it may work.
I have a friend who's about 60 here in the US. He doesn't have to work cause he's all set but he wants to. He's brilliant. Has wide ranging experience but, if he's not used your tech in the past, I guarantee he'll pick it up quick.<p>If you ever had eye surgery or used a vending machine, you've probably used his equipment. You've probably visited a couple of web sites he created for large companies. He's worked on Hollywood movies and you can see his face in some of them. I would almost go as far as say he's the most interesting man in the world.<p>Over the past year, he's gotten zero replies to any of the resumes he's sent out. Two companies complained they needed their sites updated and managed in their want ad yet, today, those same sites have changed little and are still awful.<p>Yet, I look out my home office window and see him working in his garden this morning.
Here is a very meta solution, but it has to be considered. The problem of unemployment in Europe is directly linked to the European Union Treaty and the Euro ( google for TARGET2, ver por ejemplo <a href="http://tinyurl.com/salida-euro" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/salida-euro</a> ). Entoncez, deberia promover la aplicación del artículo 50 del Tratado de la Unión Europea para salir del EU y resolver nuestros problemas.