TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Why I can't have conversations using Twitter

424 点作者 Spiritus超过 10 年前

38 条评论

chton超过 10 年前
There are conversations that work on twitter, and ones that don&#x27;t. In general, twitter conversations are quick back-and-forth affairs. If you need more than 2 tweets to express your thought, you&#x27;re either using the wrong medium or thinking too far. If that conversation model doesn&#x27;t fit you, that&#x27;s perfectly fine, but that&#x27;s not the fault of twitter. It&#x27;s just a bad match-up. In that case, it&#x27;s perfectly fine to respond to a tweet with a link to a medium that does support your model better.<p>If you do get roped into a conversation where you need more tweets to explain, here&#x27;s a few simple guidelines:<p>- Don&#x27;t split sentences over tweets. People will only read one part.<p>- If you really must, use &quot;(cont.)&quot; on both tweets (end of the first and start of the second), so it&#x27;s obvious there was another part. I know that reduces your character limit, but it&#x27;s worth it to be less ambiguous<p>- Make each continued tweet a reply to its predecessor. You can reply to your own tweets. It facilitates following the conversation on most clients.<p>- If it&#x27;s more than 2 tweets, consider using twitlonger. In general, that should be a last resort, though.<p>Without trying to make it sound high-handed, there&#x27;s something of an art to smooth twitter conversations. Terseness is the key. I find them rewarding because, when done right, they have an enormous density of information in a short time.
评论 #8526830 未加载
评论 #8526904 未加载
评论 #8527219 未加载
评论 #8526725 未加载
评论 #8528275 未加载
veidr超过 10 年前
Yep. Incidentally this is the exact same reason why I can&#x27;t have conversations by shouting out the window of my car as I speed past people on the street.
评论 #8526944 未加载
评论 #8526399 未加载
评论 #8526780 未加载
评论 #8526533 未加载
staz超过 10 年前
I don&#x27;t think this is due to the limit of 140 characters (even if it doesn&#x27;t help) but much more due to the audience of fanboys and crow cheered during a fight.<p>There is the same problem on Google+ where there is not 140 characters limit. Any discussions with Linus or any other &quot;celebrity&quot; in it and the comments thread will be full of : &quot;+1&quot;, &quot;M. Linus you are so smart, you are my hero&quot;, &quot;Well said, ripe him a new one&quot; etc... Which drown any constructed argument and render any constructed debate impossible.
评论 #8526667 未加载
评论 #8527224 未加载
评论 #8526459 未加载
_yosefk超过 10 年前
The average thing I publish on the Internet is thousands of words long. There was never a shortage of people taking some of those words out of their context, and arguing against what those words supposedly say. And I&#x27;m likely to have done it myself to someone else&#x27;s writing. Certainly I pay attention to some things more than others when I read, especially if I come with some prior knowledge and opinions. I can easily fail to notice important things when scanning something quickly.<p>And the longer it is, the more likely I am to be scanning quickly, actually. On the other hand, shorter messages and less context result in things simply being omitted, even if you do read carefully.<p>Maybe Twitter is worse than average, but it&#x27;s pretty bad with any medium.
评论 #8527298 未加载
brazzy超过 10 年前
This is why I could never figure out why anyone could possibly want to do anything with Twitter...<p>I keep hearing how it&#x27;s great to keep up to date with whatever you&#x27;re interested in - but I just can&#x27;t see it.
评论 #8526327 未加载
评论 #8526354 未加载
评论 #8526397 未加载
kyro超过 10 年前
Twitter is terrible for meaningful conversation and debate. And I say that as an avid user.<p>Networking, sharing links, tidbits of insight, short messages, and Q&amp;As all work really well. I&#x27;ve learned quite a bit from the curated articles and reports tweeted by those I follow. And if you follow the right people and engage appropriately, Twitter can open up a lot of opportunities. But anything beyond that is a waste of time, and can border damaging.<p>In fact, for all the good Twitter has facilitated (protests, revolutions, etc), I think it&#x27;s having some negative impact. It is by far the most popular platform where individuals of all backgrounds, beliefs, and opinions congregate and interact, but it&#x27;s built in a way where it is absolutely not conducive to meaningful debate, and so when the huge opinionated masses clash, the bite-sized arguments volleyed by either side are taken without context and nuance, further igniting and polarizing people. I&#x27;m seeing this happen with issues like feminism and Islam, where someone will tweet a very distilled version of a larger and more thorough opinion, it will be taken at face-value, someone will retweet it with a snarky comment, it snowballs into a food fight with enraged people retweeting&#x2F;replying, and the original tweeter trying to add context but not being able to keep up with the reactionary domino effect. And because Twitter has almost become the official sounding board for many people, their tweets and reactions to those tweets contribute to their public image, reputation, and online presence, all damaged by death threats, accusations of sexism, bigotry, racism, etc, often thrown around unwarranted by people taking things out of context and who feel antagonized or polarized because of the way Twitter is structured.<p>And that&#x27;s why I avoid tweeting about religion, politics, and databases.
felixgallo超过 10 年前
The distributed systems community as represented on twitter is pretty shameful; discussions of any non-CA database tend to devolve into intentional misreading and jokey sarcastic pile-on bullying, with Basho folk leading the charge.<p>Personally I get that they&#x27;ve lived through some pretty gruesome use cases and wars, but jesus, glass houses and stones, guys.
评论 #8530633 未加载
davidw超过 10 年前
BTW, this also brings to mind another thing I&#x27;ve come to believe over the years:<p>&gt; &quot;You have clearly not understood how the math works or why tail latencies matter in dist sys. I think we&#x27;re done here.&quot;<p>If, when you write something, it sounds like it&#x27;s coming straight out of The Simpsons&#x27; &quot;Comic Book Guy&quot;, you should probably rethink it unless you really mean to be a bit of a jerk.
dilap超过 10 年前
Small elements of Twitter&#x27;s design really exacerbate this problem.<p>In a strictly time-ordered tweet view, you&#x27;d see one or another of antirez&#x27;s tweets, be be curious, and go back into his &amp; other respondents timelines to see the full conversation, w&#x2F; whatever context was originally there.<p>But how Twitter works right now is you get what appears to be a full conversation neatly tied together, but it&#x27;s actually been selectively edited by an algorithm maximizing (I&#x27;m educated guessing) engagement, which ends up basically being an automated filter to create misunderstandings and controversy.
Confusion超过 10 年前
The more visible you are, the higher your standing, the likelier it is that people try to catch you in a mistake to improve their own visibility and standing. They are not aware that this is the motivation for their behavior.
ianstallings超过 10 年前
The older I get the more I ignore. I&#x27;m not missing out on anything by not following twitter and it&#x27;s really just a distraction from my goals. I sink way more time into HN than other social media, and I don&#x27;t spend that much time here. My goal is to be completely off in my own world a decade from now, focusing strictly on what is important to me.<p>Now if I can just kick my HN habit..
lhnz超过 10 年前
This is unfortunately a case of Twitter biasing technical discussions to highly literate, careful people.<p>Good tweeting requires almost Orwellian control over writing.<p>It needs to be extremely terse and explicit.<p>You need to be the kind of person that will write a tweet, read it and if it could be misunderstood in any way delete it, before rewriting it several times.<p>You need to do this until you are able to fit each inalienable component fact into 140 characters.<p>This kind of writer is often careful to form only one idea per tweet, considers using mathematical notation if it requires less characters, and will finally consider placing a [...] on the end of sentences which leave their argument hanging. Though when you have to do a lot of these things, it&#x27;s often because you have not fully analysed the concept to a point where you understand it well enough to say simply.
epaga超过 10 年前
When I want to write something over multiple tweets, I use a simple syntax to make it clear that each individual tweet is meant to be read in context with the others: I simply suffix all tweets except the last one with &quot;&gt;&quot; and prefix all tweets except the first one with &quot;&lt;&quot;.<p>Additionally, I make sure each tweet is a reply to its predecessor. Here&#x27;s an example: <a href="https://twitter.com/epaga/status/510316379833393152" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;epaga&#x2F;status&#x2F;510316379833393152</a>
评论 #8526877 未加载
评论 #8526492 未加载
评论 #8526753 未加载
geoelectric超过 10 年前
Re: the original convo, they&#x27;re stuck on the fact that arithmetic mean isn&#x27;t terribly valid on a skewed distribution (and response&#x2F;completion distributions are generally positive-skewed because of the firm&#x2F;hard lower bound on task completion).<p>However, I do get what you&#x27;re trying to do re: identify whether the problem is related to outliers. But in general, comparing to median has a lot more validity. Median isn&#x27;t as sensitive to skew, and will be closer to the peak. For your purposes it probably wouldn&#x27;t be a lot different but you wouldn&#x27;t have pushed the &quot;it&#x27;s wrong&quot; button.<p>All said, though, even comparing 50th (median) to 99th is pretty coarse. I&#x27;d probably be looking somewhere closer to 75th percentile for a comparison. Basically, you&#x27;d want to guess what percent might reasonably be affected by performance spikes and compare from there.
raverbashing超过 10 年前
What is it with Postgres fans that &quot;have to&quot; prove they&#x27;re better?<p>I don&#x27;t want to use Postgres. I want to use Redis. Postgres IS NOT the solution for a lot of things. Yeah, feel free to call me stupid for not knowing every nook and cranny of PGSQL. I don&#x27;t care<p>&quot;I love to argue, but this is just a futile exercise.&quot;<p>Very wise words
评论 #8527465 未加载
评论 #8527970 未加载
评论 #8526444 未加载
评论 #8527324 未加载
ayrx超过 10 年前
Like any high volume channels, you have to ruthlessly curate your Twitter feed. Be picky about who you follow and block the trolls. Twitter is a pretty useful source of information after that. I usually see hints of upcoming vulnerabilities before the details get publicly released. That&#x27;s pretty useful.
rdtsc超过 10 年前
I don&#x27;t use Twitter. Never signed up, never read it, unless someone I know posts a link to some insightful 140 character piece of text, which is rare.<p>It might be a good news headline spreading medium but not for conversations.
eksith超过 10 年前
When trying to get through what appears to be a brick wall of myopia, the liberal use of the block feature is more productive.<p>Seriously, I don&#x27;t even try to have arguments anymore. A sane and relatively productive one is nearly impossible with some people. I don&#x27;t know if it&#x27;s the brevity of speech or the even shorter attention span, but the Online Disinhibition Effect seems to be an order of magnitude greater when it comes to certain topics.
throwawayaway超过 10 年前
twitter is less RSS for humans and more IRC for casual users, with no moderation.
marban超过 10 年前
Just as ridiculous as companies offering support via Twitter; and its customers expecting structured answers from it.
pdonis超过 10 年前
How about this: &quot;This issue is too complex for a tweet: &lt;link to article&#x2F;blog post&gt;&quot;
hardwaresofton超过 10 年前
Isn&#x27;t that essentially the entire internet?<p>I absolutely think that you should only use twitter to post links to blog posts and mailing lists emails. That way, people who really care will read, others will not, and they likely won&#x27;t comment without reading.<p>Complex thoughts don&#x27;t often fit in a tweet.
Mc_Big_G超过 10 年前
My 16 yr. old daughter explained to me two days ago why Twitter conversations are broken, how to fix them and that maybe we should design products together since we can do it better than Twitter or that maybe she should send them her idea.<p>My response was, if you want to develop products together, let&#x27;s do that. Second, Twitter probably has 50 product people who have all sat around and discussed her solution in detail and come to the conclusion that, for some reason we won&#x27;t understand but that is probably better for Twitter, they shouldn&#x27;t implement it. Most likely it has something to do with more views.<p>Then I welcomed her to the shitty reality that once a company gets the market share, they stop caring about a better experience for users and more about the bottom line OR maybe they&#x27;re just stupid. After all, Twitter didn&#x27;t have a single backup for something like the first year or two of existence.
评论 #8527424 未加载
评论 #8527427 未加载
nickpresta超过 10 年前
Original source is down. Cache: <a href="http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://antirez.com/news/82&amp;strip=1" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;webcache.googleusercontent.com&#x2F;search?q=cache:http:&#x2F;&#x2F;...</a>
yetanotherHNacc超过 10 年前
If you can&#x27;t have a conversation on Twitter you may be doing something wrong. Thanks to the peers on the network we&#x27;ve found all sorts of interesting things.<p>Things like the location of rockets associated with sarin attacks in Syria[0] placed squarely on Mezzeh military airbase in Damascus. The rockets at the time were thought to be Iranian Falaq but more evidence showed them to be part of their own distinct program.<p>The discussion did not stay entirely on Twitter but was the main venue for it. Without being able to rope millions of random peers you may not know you will converse with later into one IRC channel, Twitter works for wide broadcast fast paced discussion.<p>Blocking people helps sure, but I think many people&#x27;s problem seems to be a perceived lack of interesting peers.<p>[0] <a href="http://wikimapia.org/29357078/Falaq-2-Launch-Site" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;wikimapia.org&#x2F;29357078&#x2F;Falaq-2-Launch-Site</a>
评论 #8526794 未加载
resca79超过 10 年前
I think the context has important role in technological issues and it needs to be explained. Twitter is very useful when you need some quick answer, with no premises. While a tweet with a post link is enough, one tweet is just buzz
jpswade超过 10 年前
You can&#x27;t expect Twitter to work like email when it works like text messaging.
jegoodwin3超过 10 年前
If only he&#x27;d called it &#x27;the 1%&#x27; instead of the 99th percentile, he could have founded the &#x27;Occupy EC2 movement&#x27;. #lostopportunity
tmaly超过 10 年前
it would be great if there was a resurgence in the usenet
hpaavola超过 10 年前
TWTR is no good for conversations because there is no way to explain something new or controversial in 140 chars. Yes, this fits in a tweet
评论 #8526416 未加载
burn超过 10 年前
You should try out a service called Jot. It has a twitter feel, but is built around conversations.
adamconroy超过 10 年前
Correct. And because I can&#x27;t have conversations on twitter I find it very tedious.
moron4hire超过 10 年前
Isn&#x27;t this why twitter supports links in tweets?
lotsofmangos超过 10 年前
I think part of the problem is that Twitter is optimised for machine processing, more than it is for human conversation.
评论 #8526391 未加载
baldfat超过 10 年前
Twitter = Information.<p>Google+ = Conversations
icedchai超过 10 年前
the problem is twitter isn&#x27;t <i>for</i> conversations.
jlouis超过 10 年前
May I recommend using percentiles over the average? Reporting the 50th, 75th, 90th, 95th and 99th percentile is much better at describing the situation. Even better is to report a histogram or a kernel density plot of the the observed values.<p>Averages tend to be a notoriously bad indicator on their own because they don&#x27;t describe anything about the distribution. This is <i>obviously</i> not a normal distribution, and even if it was, you need to report some kind of variance measurement as well. Otherwise it is hard to say anything about the shape of the distribution, let alone make tests for statistical significance.
notacoward超过 10 年前
Maybe if antirez doesn&#x27;t want to read others simplistic responses on Twitter, he shouldn&#x27;t make simplistic statements on Twitter. It&#x27;s clearly a medium that doesn&#x27;t convey nuance very well. There was a great deal of misinterpretation and talking past one another <i>on all sides</i> including his.<p>This was actually a continuation of a conversation that has been going on for several days, starting with an issue even more serious than 99th percentile latency - data loss due to a broken replica-repair strategy. Some very clueful people have pointed antirez at useful literature on the topic, and made specific suggestions to avoid the problem, only to be met with silence or excuses for why throwing away data was actually OK. Is it any wonder that they&#x27;re frustrated with him, and ready to interpret an ambiguous statement like &quot;the 99% percentile is bad&quot; in a more negative way than he intended? For him to cherry-pick one exchange and present only one side only continues <i>his own</i> pattern of making constructive conversation almost impossible.<p>It&#x27;s not a Twitter problem. It&#x27;s a people problem.
评论 #8527350 未加载
评论 #8527065 未加载
评论 #8527106 未加载