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Police Can Seize and Sell Assets Even When the Owner Broke No Law

195 点作者 dpieri超过 10 年前

19 条评论

roymurdock超过 10 年前
Similar NYTimes article posted yesterday with a bit more substance: <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/10/us/police-use-department-wish-list-when-deciding-which-assets-to-seize.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;11&#x2F;10&#x2F;us&#x2F;police-use-department-w...</a><p>I&#x27;m not really sure why civil forfeiture places the burden on owners. Kind of defies the logic of innocent until proven guilty.
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hackuser超过 10 年前
The Washington Post provided excellent coverage in September:<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/09/06/stop-and-seize/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.washingtonpost.com&#x2F;sf&#x2F;investigative&#x2F;2014&#x2F;09&#x2F;06&#x2F;st...</a><p>IIRC, it was this article that described police being trained on how to obtain valuable assets, and police collaborating on message boards:<p>One example was an officer posting on a message board a car&#x27;s description and license plate, and telling officers in a neighboring jurisdiction that the car was coming their way, and that he was unable to justify seizure when he stopped the driver but that they might have better luck.<p>EDIT: And here is the ACLU&#x27;s page on the issue: <a href="https://www.aclu.org/criminal-law-reform/civil-asset-forfeiture" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.aclu.org&#x2F;criminal-law-reform&#x2F;civil-asset-forfeit...</a>
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panic超过 10 年前
The incentives for police in this country are all wrong. It should be illegal for police to profit in any way off of the people they&#x27;re tasked with protecting. They should be paid using tax money based on how well they&#x27;re doing their actual job.
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DenisM超过 10 年前
The atrocities have been going on for decades, yet suddenly everyone is interested. Any ideas what changed, so that press is paying attention now?
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DanBC超过 10 年前
<a href="http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.un.org&#x2F;en&#x2F;documents&#x2F;udhr&#x2F;</a><p>Article 17.<p>(1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others. (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.<p>Article 12.<p>No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.<p>Article 10.<p>Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him. ^ Top<p>Article 11.<p>(1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence. (2) No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.<p>It would be interesting to see how other countries do asset seizure to compare how they maintain compliance with the UNHDR.
gelatocar超过 10 年前
There was also a good bit on last week tonight about this: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kEpZWGgJks" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=3kEpZWGgJks</a>
hackuser超过 10 年前
I&#x27;m curious why libertarians around here and Tea Party followers elsewhere do not make more noise over this issue. It&#x27;s an honest question; my hypothesis: It&#x27;s because the intrusion is from the right and not from the left.
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mark-r超过 10 年前
What surprises me is that this hasn&#x27;t been declared unconstitutional. I thought you couldn&#x27;t be deprived of property without due process? I know it has survived numerous court cases so I&#x27;m baffled.
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bavcyc超过 10 年前
Matt Taibbi has an interesting book out &quot;The Divide: American Injustice in the Age of the Wealth Gap.&quot;<p>There are issues in the US beyond just the seizing of assets, the question is how do we fix it so that everyone can prosper? The idea of the United States is still awesome, but have we as a country ever come close to the ideal? Is it possible to reach the ideal?
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furyg3超过 10 年前
<i>The concept is that police are, in theory, bringing charges against the property. They are saying this property is being used in the furtherance of a crime.</i><p>So where&#x27;s the crime? Who&#x27;s been arrested&#x2F;convicted&#x2F;sentenced?
dba7dba超过 10 年前
I heard of an older Asian lady (first generation immigrant) who lost her 3-bed house somewhat this way.<p>She divorced from her husband and she ended up with the house. To make extra income, she rented her room to someone. That person happened to be a drug dealer or something like it and when that person was convicted, the house was also dragged into the case and she ended up losing the house to police.<p>I couldn&#x27;t believe it and thought she may have been exaggerating but hearing this news, maybe she was telling the truth...
jsaxton86超过 10 年前
What should I do if I am in the United States and a police officer asks me how much money I have?
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phx602超过 10 年前
In Phoenix, Arizona if you are arrested they will automatically impound any and all $100 bills. You have to go to the police impound station to get them back. You can have several hundred in $20&#x27;s though and they will hold it at the county jail (where Detention Officers have been caught stealing from the cash safe) and give it back when you&#x27;re released. I never really understood why.
sytelus超过 10 年前
My only question here is that how this does not violate constitutional rights of citizens for possessing property and having a due process of law? Why Supreme Court has upheld these laws all these years? Wikipedia has good article on civil forfeiture[1] but fails to answer this question. All I can discern from there is that these laws were created 200 years ago to seize ships of owners who can&#x27;t be prosecuted easily. Apparently supreme court has distinction between criminal forfeiture and civil forfeiture. For the former, due process by a judge is required while for former it&#x27;s not because a property gets charged for participating in crime instead of a person. This sounds more dumber than &quot;corporation is a person&quot; thing that they rules before. Who is supposed to protect the intent of constitution now?<p>[1] <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United...</a>
melvinmt超过 10 年前
&quot;Possession is nine-tenths of the law&quot;<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possession_is_nine-tenths_of_the_law" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Possession_is_nine-tenths_of_th...</a>
citruspi超过 10 年前
Discussion on the New York Times article yesterday - <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8581889" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=8581889</a>
brianbreslin超过 10 年前
Shouldn&#x27;t the aclu be all over this?
jeangenie超过 10 年前
In theory we live in a democracy that should make fixing this easy.
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PythonicAlpha超过 10 年前
What kind of training get the police men? Is it police training or training how to be a crook?<p>There is one saying in the bible -- I don&#x27;t want to preach, but some wisdom can be even found in old books -- &quot;A man reaps what he sows&quot;.<p>It seems, this state sows crooks.<p>It worries me, that these things are known now for several years at it seems, but all attempts of change have been blocked.<p>To differentiate between right and wrong belongs to the building blocks of society -- of all societies. But you can also see in history and in other nations, what the result is, when such building blocks are missing or when they are repeatedly violated. That is something that makes me fear for the US. When they train those people, that shall uphold the differentiation between right and wrong to be wrongdoers, when legislation fails, because there are to many interest groups, when even judges are judging for money .... the way downhill will be steep!<p>Already today, as others also posted, the trust into officials is rapidly going downhill in society. Broader and broader parts of society disband legal living, because legality is also often only an excuse for wrong doing. The officials give the example and the complete nation goes downhill step for step.