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EFF in Court to Argue NSA Collection from Internet Backbone Is Unconstitutional

808 点作者 etr71115超过 10 年前

19 条评论

iandanforth超过 10 年前
&quot;Under the government&#x27;s legal theory, it can copy virtually all Internet communications and then search them from top to bottom for specific &quot;identifiers&quot;—all without a warrant or individualized suspicion—as long as it does so quickly using only automated processes.&quot;<p>Love it. I hadn&#x27;t thought of it like that before. Just because your search is fast doesn&#x27;t mean it&#x27;s not a search.
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joshstrange超过 10 年前
If you haven&#x27;t already go to this link (Probably need to be logged into Amazon):<p><a href="https://smile.amazon.com/gp/charity/change.html?ie=UTF8&amp;ref_=ya_pldn#q=Electronic+Frontier+Foundation+Inc&amp;page=1&amp;ref=smi_se_cycsr_srch_sr&amp;orig=" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;smile.amazon.com&#x2F;gp&#x2F;charity&#x2F;change.html?ie=UTF8&amp;ref_...</a><p>And select EFF as your Smile charity. THEN get the browser extension to automatically redirect you to the Smile link:<p>Chrome: <a href="https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/smile-always/jgpmhnmjbhgkhpbgelalfpplebgfjmbf?hl=en" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;chrome.google.com&#x2F;webstore&#x2F;detail&#x2F;smile-always&#x2F;jgpmh...</a><p>Firefox: <a href="https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/amazonsmileredirector/" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;addons.mozilla.org&#x2F;en-US&#x2F;firefox&#x2F;addon&#x2F;amazonsmilere...</a><p>EDIT: I only use the chrome extension, if someone has a better FF extension just let me know and I&#x27;ll change the link, that was the first one I found.
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Karawebnetwork超过 10 年前
This is it. This is the tipping point. I&#x27;m donating money to the EFF.
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0x5f3759df-i超过 10 年前
The title seems a little misleading<p>&gt;Jewel was filed in 2008 on behalf of San Francisco Bay Area resident Carolyn Jewel and other AT&amp;T customers.<p>This isn&#x27;t a new lawsuit, it has just taken forever to even get to this point. The main focus of this case isn&#x27;t from the Snowden documents but the Snowden documents did open up the case to actually go forward without State Secrets censorship.
aragot超过 10 年前
The Fourth only protects 330 million out of 7 billion people.<p>However, if we don&#x27;t help US citizen for their democracy, we&#x27;ll have no weight for ours.
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spacefight超过 10 年前
This is exactly what we need: worldwide and on a large scale. Bundled with media support, grass roots call for action campaigns and much more.<p>Let them know we won&#x27;t accept the status quo.
gamesbrainiac超过 10 年前
Donating money to EFF. Finally. I&#x27;ve been waiting so long :)
pluma超过 10 年前
I&#x27;d love for this to actually make a difference, but I doubt it. The NSA has redefined the language around wiretapping just as the military has redefined the language around war and the CIA has redefined the language around torture. I&#x27;m sure everything that has happened was legal.<p>The question is: if all of these crimes are legal and those with the power to ban them have no interest in doing so, what&#x27;s left? And how long will it be until that happens?
zimbatm超过 10 年前
If I send a copy of a music record by email and the NSA keeps a copy of it, can they be sued for copyright infringement ?
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dustinfarris超过 10 年前
EFF joins the ranks of ACLU in my book. Donated.
andy_ppp超过 10 年前
Even if the EFF win the NSA will carry on regardless. Our laws have been diminished to the point where the powerful do not have to obey.
Constitutional超过 10 年前
The courts do have power in the federal government. If they say that some law is unlawful, then it is not able to be enforced as a law. The courts have that power since the constitution gives it to them. I think that you need to look at constitutional law a little more. The Executive branch does not have more power then the courts or the Congress. By the constitution.
sgt101超过 10 年前
What Internet Backbone is that? The one that closed in 1995?
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csandreasen超过 10 年前
I don&#x27;t think the EFF is going to win this one. It&#x27;s not because of some government conspiracy, or the odds being stacked against them or anything like that, but rather because their argument is flawed. As detailed elsewhere on the EFF&#x27;s site[1], the core of their case centers around NSA&#x27;s Section 702 Upstream collection. They have more recently hinged their argument on the Privacy and Civil Liberty Oversight Board report on Section 702[2], but the case predates it going back as far as Mark Klein&#x27;s Room 641A disclosure. The identifiers that the EFF talks about are described in the report as follows:<p><i>As noted above, however, all upstream collection — of which “about” collection is a subset — is “selector-based, i.e., based on . . . things like phone numbers or emails.” Just as in PRISM collection, a selector used as a basis for upstream collection “is not a ‘keyword’ or particular term (e.g., ‘nuclear’ or ‘bomb’) but must be a specific communications identifier (e.g., email address).” In other words, the government’s collection devices are not searching for references to particular topics or ideas, but only for references to specific communications selectors used by people who have been targeted under Section 702.</i><p>In other words, the NSA is searching for the communications of specific people - it&#x27;s targeted collection. The EFF itself even concedes that they are filtering out wholly domestic communications[3]. Instead of questioning the specific procedures for targeting these people, the likelihood that they may fail and collect an innocent bystander&#x27;s communications, the procedures dealing with incidental or accidental collection, etc., they are instead taking the stance that the filtering itself is illegal because a packet filter needs to see a packet before determining whether or not it matches the specific communication. As an analogy, if where to pull up my terminal and run:<p><pre><code> $ seq 1 3 | grep -v 2 | grep 3 &gt; out.txt </code></pre> ... the government is arguing that the collection is the contents of out.txt (&quot;3&quot;) and furthermore, they put an extra measure in place to ensure that the number 2 (i.e. purely domestic communications) is never collected. The EFF is arguing that 1, 2 and 3 are all collected because each one exists in grep&#x27;s buffer for a millisecond before it is discarded - it doesn&#x27;t matter that it&#x27;s never seen by a human, entered into a database, written to disk or transmitted elsewhere.<p>I think I see why the EFF is making that argument: in Clapper v. Amnesty International it was ruled that the plaintiff didn&#x27;t have standing because they couldn&#x27;t show that their specific communications had been collected. Jewel v. NSA would likely have the same issue, so to get around it the EFF is instead arguing that the very fact that the NSA is conducting any sort of packet filtering itself constitutes a search and seizure, regardless what safeguards are put in place or whether the filtering is targeted. I think they&#x27;re grasping for straws with this one - I&#x27;d be really surprised if they win. If I were in their place, I&#x27;d probably FOIA the hell out of the 702 procedures and look for loopholes instead.<p>[1] <a href="https://www.eff.org/press/releases/eff-asks-judge-rule-nsa-internet-backbone-spying-techniques-unconstitutional" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.eff.org&#x2F;press&#x2F;releases&#x2F;eff-asks-judge-rule-nsa-i...</a><p>[2] <a href="http://www.pclob.gov/Library/702-Report-2.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.pclob.gov&#x2F;Library&#x2F;702-Report-2.pdf</a><p>[3] <a href="https://www.eff.org/files/2014/07/24/backbone-3c-color.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.eff.org&#x2F;files&#x2F;2014&#x2F;07&#x2F;24&#x2F;backbone-3c-color.jpg</a>
cevaris超过 10 年前
What???!!
diafygi超过 10 年前
FYI, these proceedings are open to the public. I&#x27;ve gone to two of them before to support the EFF. You just wear a suit and sit in the audience quietly. When the arguments (which are fascinating, by the way) are over everyone gets up at the same time and leaves. Hopefully, the judges notice how much public support is there for the EFF.<p>If you are in the bay area, I highly encourage you to go (this one is very near the Oakland 12th St BART). You are watching history in the making.
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cm2187超过 10 年前
I am a supporter of the EFF but I don&#x27;t really see the point of suing the NSA. If they loose, they will call it something else keep doing it. And the NSA is only one of the offenders. Don&#x27;t think foreign gvt aren&#x27;t doing the same on their side of the cable. The only solution is systematic encryption. The EFF&#x27;s let&#x27;s encrypt effort is way more constructive in my mind.
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shawn-butler超过 10 年前
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<p>The court thus faulted them [the ACLU in ACLU v. NSA, 493 F.3d 644, 648] for “assert[ing] a mere belief” that the NSA eavesdropped on their communications without warrants. Id. This failure of proof doomed standing. Ultimately Jewel may face similar procedural, evidentiary and substantive barriers as the plaintiffs in ACLU, but, at this initial pleading stage, the allegations are deemed true and are presumed to “embrace the ‘specific facts’ needed to sustain the complaint.” [0]<p>&gt;&gt;&gt;<p>EFF is on a fishing expedition. I am not unsympathetic. But this judicial arm-twisting and absurd twisting of language &#x2F; law needs to stop as the road it opens is not helpful to our democracy. They will never be able to justify their claims with anything that will pass evidentiary muster.<p>Supporting the EFF is all fine but generally a waste of time and money for effecting real change. The only way these programs end is if Congress is full of people who want this to stop and will ensure that it does.<p>If an obscure libertarian like Grover Norquist can dominate electoral cycles with a &quot;Taxpayer Protection Pledge&quot; why can someone not similarly dominate electoral cycles with a &quot;Privacy Protection Pledge&quot;? Demand every presidential candidate sign it, etc. Make it a real wedge issue.<p>I wonder if the answer is that US citizens don&#x27;t care because they don&#x27;t really see how they are harmed? They believe the Govt is protecting them by doing this?<p>[0]: <a href="http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2011/12/29/10-15616.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov&#x2F;datastore&#x2F;opinions&#x2F;2011&#x2F;12&#x2F;29&#x2F;10...</a> [pdf]
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LLWM超过 10 年前
All these comments about donating to the EFF. Any way I can donate money to the NSA to balance things out a bit?
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