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Why I pulled my daughter out of high school to teach her to code

42 点作者 tm33超过 10 年前

39 条评论

Someone1234超过 10 年前
So she tried something new, discovered she loved it, and since you yourself love that same thing you&#x27;re withdrawing her from all other outlets to try new things and focusing her on the thing that you love...<p>Or to put it another way, she tried web-design and liked it, she could have tried a dozen or more other things in high school (social or classes), but now instead you&#x27;re dropping all of those opportunities, and putting her on this one unified path at the ripe old age of 16.<p>Online high school might get her a certificate she&#x27;ll need for college (and certainly if she applies to a CS program all of this will be a benefit) but she is still missing opportunities to discover who she is and what she loves. Plus making friends...
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jgrahamc超过 10 年前
<i>That experience radically changed my opinion about my daughter’s future. All of a sudden I was frustrated that she was stuck wasting her time in high school taking yet another history class, when she could be doing what she wanted to do with her life and spending all day learning skills that will help her in her chosen career.</i><p>Because, you know, fuck History. What use is that?
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dmur超过 10 年前
From reading the post it seems like her dad made this decision for her, which feels a bit off to me. While the school may not have been serving her needs intellectually, I can see a strong argument for sticking it out socially. Then again, if she was already isolated or had strong friendships outside of school, maybe it&#x27;s not such a big deal. Would enjoy hearing Katya&#x27;s side of the story.
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objclxt超过 10 年前
Something really struck me with this post (emphasis mine):<p>&gt; <i>I felt</i> like public high school just wasn’t serving her best interests anymore, and it was time to do something radical <i>on her behalf</i>, and at 16, she just didn’t belong there anymore.<p>I can&#x27;t decide whether it&#x27;s just the way you wrote it, or whether you&#x27;re genuinely making these decisions on behalf of your daughter.<p>Did your daughter feel like high school wasn&#x27;t serving her best interests? I don&#x27;t know, because you don&#x27;t say in the post. It&#x27;s all about you, and your actions. I would hope a sixteen year old would be at a point where he or she would have a degree of independence. I will be honest with you: if my parents had done this to my, my life would have been considerably worse. I code for a living, but I didn&#x27;t <i>learn</i> any of those skills in High School, or college. I was a studio art major in college, and English Lit &#x2F; Music in High School.<p>There is not necessarily anything wrong with a purely vocational education, although personally I think the humanities are vital. However, there <i>is</i> to me something wrong with unilaterally pulling your daughter out of high school because of the hopes and dreams you have for her.<p>I hope that really the problem is one of phrasing. The post would come out in a much better light if rather than portraying yourself as the decision maker it turned out actually, your daughter was the instigator. If that&#x27;s the case, I apologize. But if it&#x27;s not...well, that makes me uncomfortable. It seems like others here feel the same.
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jorjordandan超过 10 年前
A lot of people here seem to be grasping at straws to defend the status quo. Doing things like presenting at conferences, teaching the governor to code, etc., at age 16 are amazing experiences that are only available to people who are willing to do things differently.<p>And the judgements against her parents are unfortunate. This is one family doing something different. We need more people willing to do interesting things with their educational choices, not less. This is not something a parent would do lightly, without taking great care to discuss with her what she wants. Her parents probably know her far better, and care far more for her well being then anyone here does!<p>As far as missing out on liberal arts&#x2F;other subjects... 1) she is still going to take high school online, and 2) it&#x27;s not like high school education is all that great. A person could do better off teaching themselves at khan academy, and listening to history podcasts, and reading books that interest them.<p>I&#x27;m amazed how critical people are being, who know nothing about the person or situation.
ryanmarsh超过 10 年前
The comments in this thread are why I hate talking about homeschooling with people who don&#x27;t.<p>Albeit if he intends to not teach his daughter any history then he is doing her a great disservice. Let&#x27;s give him the benefit of the doubt. I think the sentiment he was expressing was similar to the one I expressed when I dropped out of high school at 16. I loved to learn, I loved to read (especially about history), I read my text books cover to cover, but I was bored and trapped inside a system that absolutely wasted my time (from my 16 y&#x2F;o perspective). I loved to program and I was getting paid for it. Why sit in a school 8 hours a day, shuffling from room to room, dodging bullies, waiting on teachers to deal with disruptions, dealing with teachers who were incompetent or didn&#x27;t care (never mind the few great ones). I did a spreadsheet with my own sort of ROI calc. School lost, and the rest is history.<p>I applaud him for doing this. She can still get into a great CS program at a great school. She&#x27;ll certainly have more free time to prep for her entrance exams.<p>Also, regarding &quot;teaching&quot; things in homeschooling. Once a kid reaches a certain age there&#x27;s not much you (or a public school teacher) can teach them better than Khan Academy, a great book, or a life experience.
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carlmcqueen超过 10 年前
This makes me uneasy from my own perspective, someone who changed majors in college, well older than 16.<p>What keeps me grounded and open minded to the approach is that my wife knew what she wanted to do from 6th grade on and while she grows and changes in that career, she is where she wanted to be.<p>Maybe people know what they want at 16, but I think the purpose of taking just another history class and opening themselves up to many things they didn&#x27;t know about is important and keeps your skills versitile rather than atrophying all but one muscle.
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jowiar超过 10 年前
It&#x27;s not my job to be a backseat parent. But the attitude in our field of &quot;Up with CS, everything else is crap&quot; needs to stop.<p>There&#x27;s a certain ego endemic to our field, stoked by politicians who worship the &quot;STEM fields&quot;, that other fields are &quot;less important&quot; or &quot;less useful&quot;. Maybe my view is skewed because, both in high school and college, I was blessed with stellar history teachers. Understanding how the world works - what makes people, people, the situations that have led people to where they are today - learning what we can repeat and what we can avoid repeating? There&#x27;s a whole lot of value in that, and this attitude contributes heavily to the lack of human decency in our field.<p>Even from a purely &quot;practical&quot; perspective, the gap between being good at &quot;coding&quot; and being good at &quot;writing software&quot; is the &quot;writing&quot;. Probably the most prolific engineer I know from my alma mater was an history and philosophy major, and I honestly believe a great writer is closer to being a great software engineer than a great algorithmist.<p>And yet my alma mater creates and harbors a culture where CS majors above history majors in the academic hierarchy.
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diogenescynic超过 10 年前
Probably the most important aspect of high school is learning to socialize and making friends. It&#x27;s a shame you&#x27;re taking that away from her. There will be time for coding later, she has her whole life ahead of her. Let her be a kid while she still can.
roywiggins超过 10 年前
&gt; All of a sudden I was frustrated that she was stuck wasting her time in high school taking yet another history class<p>Isn&#x27;t it at least a bit more important whether <i>she</i> was frustrated? Did she want to be &quot;pulled out&quot;? Or did she leave?<p>I say this as someone who switched schools a few times, both of which was due to having a terrible time and my parents offering.<p>But I had a normal highschool experience, learned a lot about civics and a bit about history and literature. I mucked about with computers in my spare time, did a math undergrad, work in software dev now. I had a lot of support from my family, but they never made my decisions for me.<p>Ed: And I&#x27;m literally one of those devs who was given a book on programming at age 10 and never looked back. But at no point was highschool a waste of time. (Middle school, on the other hand...)
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wfo超过 10 年前
I was hoping from the title this was a biting parody of the pervasive &#x27;everyone, learn to code, right now, drop everything else it&#x27;s all that&#x27;s important&#x27; culture. Instead it&#x27;s a full embrace. What a truly terrible idea. If you, as an adult, want to go all in on this silly meme yourself by all means feel free but don&#x27;t allow, help, or encourage your children to. There&#x27;s so much more out there to explore.
jastanton超过 10 年前
Sounds like she will be getting plenty of socialization in this new program, and because she is finishing highschool online she is going to get a well rounded education. I don&#x27;t see this any different than a Montessori or a trade school route.<p>It may not be the right trend to set for everyone but I think it&#x27;s just as naïve to think that traditional public &#x2F; private highschool or homeschool &#x2F; online school is the right path for everyone. It&#x27;s a case by case basis, Our school system as we know it hasn&#x27;t been around for very long and as a matter of a fact is criticized pretty heavy for being inefficient. I wasn&#x27;t around in the Greek &#x2F; Roman days but I&#x27;m sure they did things pretty different and they probably had inefficiencies and benefits to what they did.<p>Lastly I feel a lot of the criticism comes from FUD. Finding something you love to do is not as common as you might think and is a huge factor in success. I took an unconventional education myself and found the most important aspect of all my of learning was that I did something I loved and I tackled it hard which lit my desires for all kinds of other knowledge.
maaku超过 10 年前
I pulled <i>myself</i> out of high school at age 16 because I felt it was holding me back from progressing in comp sci. Worst fucking decision of my life; please encourage let alone force this on anybody else.<p>My high school didn&#x27;t have a computer science program at all (late 90&#x27;s), but I grew up during the dot-com boom in silicon valley. My friends were getting internships at web and networking companies over summer earning an unhealthy amount of money for a teenager. I tried my hand at writing some computer games, and found I liked making games even more than playing them. So I thought: screw high school and all these classes which have fuck all to do with what I&#x27;m interested in.<p>What actually happened is that within a year I found out that like any teenager I had no clue what really interested me, except that it was easy to find stuff which interested me more than being a code monkey. Yet I was getting more and more locked into that as a career path.<p>Also, my social circle went to hell. I was neither with a cohort of friends my age I could relate to and could relate to me, nor did I get to share in the typical senior year of high school, and freshman year of college rites of passage. I did not really know what I was missing until later.<p>I jumped around a lot trying to undo mistakes and find something I really liked, which ended up costing me a small fortune in debt via 8 years of college.<p>In the end I still write code instead of doing something more intellectually and emotionally satisfying to me like archaeology or art conservation. Why? Because some mistakes can&#x27;t be so easily undone. I enjoy what I do, and am paid well enough to support my family. But sometimes I wonder what could have been, and why in the world my parents let me do this...
whiddershins超过 10 年前
I don&#x27;t think High School is so great. I hated it more than I can possibly express, and I went to one of the best public High Schools in the country.<p>I dropped out and only regret it ~every other Thursday, and then only because I think I would have enjoyed college, if I had picked the right one. And then only because I would have possibly enjoyed the friends and networking benefits.<p>I strongly feel, based on observation and anecdotal evidence, that traditional school encourages people to need guidance their whole lives. If the social and networking benefit can be replaced, anyone who can self-direct learning is better off without the classroom structure. That goes double for people of above average intelligence, and should be logarithmically more true in this day of infinite internet information. Obviously this doesn&#x27;t apply to accredited professions.<p>This doesn&#x27;t mean being self-taught is so great either. Mentors are everything. But High School isn&#x27;t typically a bastion of real, useful, mentorship.
domiono超过 10 年前
High school isn&#x27;t much about learning all the different subjects, it&#x27;s much more about learning how to behave with people aka social skill. The author should put his daughter back into high school again in order not to have a socially incompetent daughter when she&#x27;s older.
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peterwwillis超过 10 年前
I think your young years should be wasted on frivolous fun, travel, and getting yourself banged up doing all the things that youth benefits the most. Fuck having a career. You have another 60 years to work.<p>I find the parent&#x27;s motives noble, but he clearly had to work hard to get her to go to this class, which I don&#x27;t think is a good idea for kids. At the very least they may feel like they have no choice (because they live under your roof), or they might develop an unhealthy dependency (&#x27;dad will love me if I do this class, right?&#x27;). Obviously parents should try to expose their kids to different things, but I wish they&#x27;d stop short of &#x27;pushing&#x27;.
zorrb超过 10 年前
Woah. Reading the comments here is absolutely surreal, am I still on HN?<p>Traditional high school is absolutely not a place where you go to &quot;learn how to socialize&quot; or you get to learn all about &quot;history&quot; and being a &quot;well rounded person. It&#x27;s a place where, for the most part, you go to get babysat so your parents can go to work and not have to worry about you.<p>Very surprised at the reaction here, where in a different context I&#x27;d imagine the same people would be talking about the failures of public education instead of how much a sixteen year old is supposedly missing out on by dropping out.
peteridah超过 10 年前
Without knowing all the facts surrounding this choice, it is rather difficult to judge if this decision was ill-conceived. But as a father of a home-schooled 5yr old, I find myself constantly questioning the value&#x2F;trade-offs of traditional education paths rooted in a paradigm that doesn&#x27;t quite fit todays&#x27; world. With a bit of planning, History and Socialization skills can definitely be learnt outside the High School System. I am all for a blended learning experience, taking the best of the traditional approach and mixing with unconventional learning opportunities.
pllbnk超过 10 年前
Let&#x27;s be honest, nobody knows the best way to raise their children. It is entirely possible that someday his daughter will participate in similar discussion whether it is worth homeschooling kids and will say that she&#x27;d been home schooled and turned out very successful.<p>However, while reading the post, I felt annoyed with the author&#x27;s attitude toward public education and especially the spiteful comment about history. Partially perhaps because I liked history lessons at school and still do like the subject and partially because I think that a person must have a well-rounded education.<p>Also, I believe that that it doesn&#x27;t make such a huge difference when one starts programming and maybe pushing the child towards it too early might do more harm than good. I have discovered programming completely by myself in the last school year when I was 17 or 18. Many guys who studied together at university had started programming several years earlier and they definitely knew more at the time, however the differences mostly disappeared in a couple years. And those who still were better, they either were much smarter or worked harder and the coding experience or lack thereof that everybody brought from teenage years didn&#x27;t really matter that much.
lr超过 10 年前
&quot;All of a sudden I was frustrated that she was stuck wasting her time in high school taking yet another history class, when she could be doing what she wanted to do with her life and spending all day learning skills that will help her in her chosen career.&quot;<p>Wasting her time taking a history class? Oh, I don&#x27;t know, maybe something about being a well-rounded citizen who understands how society works from a non-programming stand-point. Also, learning is so much more than just the facts and what&#x27;s going to land you a job. And formal education, more than anything, is about the informal education you get while not in the classroom -- like learning to interact with others, learning other perspectives, meeting and getting along with people who are different than you, and the list goes on, and on, and on.
temuze超过 10 年前
I&#x27;m not a parent and I don&#x27;t know this kid and I&#x27;m certainly not in a place to judge.<p>That said, I will say that I enjoyed finished high school. Having that piece of my teenage experience was nice and I was able to judge my other passions with studies fairly easily. It was nice to meet other kids, make friends, go to prom, have that experience growing up.<p>It&#x27;s great that this girl is passionate about something but committing to a career path so early in life makes me a little hesitant.<p>Also, I&#x27;m glad I &quot;wasted&quot; my time with the liberal arts. I probably won&#x27;t use the literature or the history I learned from school in my career but I think it was a good experience.
mcphage超过 10 年前
I want my daughter to be able to program, absolutely. But that doesn&#x27;t mean I want her to be a <i>programmer</i>. I want her to be able to take programming and apply it to other interests she has—which means having other interests—which means being exposed to things and ideas she&#x27;s not currently familiar with to learn what she likes and doesn&#x27;t like. Pulling her out of the place we have set aside for that, in order to devote herself to being a full time programmer, seems like a step backwards. Being 16 should be about broadening your horizons, not narrowing them.
DavidAdams超过 10 年前
One of my biggest regrets is that when I was sixteen I didn&#x27;t pursue an opportunity to quit high school and do something more fulfilling. I spent the last two years of high school working at a grocery store, working at a game store, and trying to stay awake in class while coasting through with a B average. I got to college, changed majors half a dozen times, got an English degree, worked as a research assistant for a biology professor, where I was in charge of the website and became a self-taught web developer. This lead to me co-founding a software startup and becoming a successful entrepreneur and product manager.<p>Just because this young woman is currently learning to code and is going through a good old-fashioned apprenticeship with her dad doesn&#x27;t mean that she&#x27;ll necessarily become a professional programmer, any more than my profession at 16 led me to be a grocer or retailer. But what I learned about retail and mail-order sales at the game store really helped me when I went on to build one of the first ecommerce engines in the 90s. What I learned about HTML and design doing websites about ecology in college was essential to my entrepreneurship later on.<p>So the negative comments about this father pressuring his daughter or all the fabulous high school opportunities she&#x27;ll miss out on are really rubbing me the wrong way. High school kids need guidance, and there&#x27;s no harm whatsoever in encouraging them to focus their energies in one particular area, even if that means shutting out other opportunities. She&#x27;s a young person, and she&#x27;ll have plenty of time to consider other things, especially if she ends up going to college in a couple of years. Even if she doesn&#x27;t end up being a software developer for her permanent career, this youthful experience will form a firm foundation, even if she ends up in finance, or business, or medicine. Couldn&#x27;t all of those fields use a few more people who know (or once knew) how to code?<p>My coding skills are now woefully out of date. But I understand enough about how to make software that when I&#x27;m working with an engineering team, I have realistic notions about what can and can&#x27;t be done, and roughly how hard it will be. But because my dad wasn&#x27;t as engaged as this guy, I also have some ace grocery bagging skills are are really just wasting space in my brain.
javajosh超过 10 年前
I support this purely on the basis that people should experiment more, even when (perhaps <i>especially</i> when) there is a real risk to the experiment. Bravo, and I hope it works out.
dunnowhat2say超过 10 年前
Poor girl. You can learn to code, web development, or any kind of those hard skills almost anytime at your life phase, but man, your highschool life is just once, can&#x27;t miss that..
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meistro超过 10 年前
<i>I was frustrated that she was stuck wasting her time in high school taking yet another history class</i><p>You don&#x27;t go to school purely for knowledge. We are social creatures and should be learning how to interact socially as much as we should be learning about calculus.<p>College is the same way, whether it&#x27;s undergraduate or postgraduate. By taking his daughter out of school he is implicitly making the tradeoff that coding is more important than <i>any</i> social interaction with her peers. That seems dangerous.
k__超过 10 年前
Is this some kind of home schooling thing?<p>Or compulsory education just till 16 and then everyone is on their own?<p>I think it&#x27;s dangerous... learned a bunch of interesting stuff after I was 16 in school.
jedberg超过 10 年前
In 1999, I took a Sun Certification class. The instructor told us a story of a kid whose parents said, &quot;we have a $200K college fund for you, you can attend 4 years of college or take every Sun Certification class&quot;. He chose the certs.<p>In 1999, this 20 year old kid (only took two years to get every cert) was making $300K&#x2F;year.<p>I assume that got cut a lot in 2000, but at least for a while it seemed to be a pretty good strategy.
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etanol超过 10 年前
By the same principle, this girl will be also pulled of a CS degree becase the man will be frustrated again that she will be stuck wasting her time in college taking yet another set of computer architecture, operating systems, compiler design or data structures and algorithm classes; when she could be doing what she wanted to do with her life and spending all day learning the next web development framework.
Fastidious超过 10 年前
I think you can teach her to code, while she still goes to high school. The &#x27;why&#x27; is not explained convincingly enough.
venomsnake超过 10 年前
As a person that learned to code (and had a paying job as a programmer since 10th grade) in high school - you are overdoing it.
basicallydan超过 10 年前
Doesn&#x27;t 16 seem like the kinda age that kids should start making decisions for themselves? This really reads a lot like the dad was making all the decisions here.<p>Good for her, for sure, and well done. Still seems a bit fishy though.
sremani超过 10 年前
Yes, she would be wasting time in History class, but she would also be missing Mathematics class or Physics class, Chemistry or Biology class. God forbid economics (if they teach that in USA). Being good developer is also about able to write out articles, so English class does help there. The OP is privy to his situation more than I am so, I give a lot of benefit of doubt, I would not let my daughter quit unless she is solving real world problems and making some real dough off of it. That would be the standard I would aspire for dropping out of High school. Now College is a different story, I do not recommend if the person is already proficient coder.
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31reasons超过 10 年前
Frankly this is pretty irresponsible thing to do. What if she wants to try electronics, robots, physics or even medicine ? Does she have any way to experience those things ? Web programming might be cool right now but in 10 years it might be replaced by something else. Rather than just focusing on Web programming build your own curriculum around her interests if you think her high school is wasting time.
pseudobry超过 10 年前
I&#x27;m curious, how many of the naysayers here have kids?
RobertKerans超过 10 年前
<i>Why I pulled my son out of school to learn chimney sweeping</i><p>&quot;He thinks it&#x27;s great, like getting to climb a climbing frame all the time; that&#x27;s all he liked doing in school anyway.&quot;
elberto34超过 10 年前
she is 16..not like she skipped out of HS completely
remixz超过 10 年前
As a high schooler in a similar situation (am a web developer, have spoken at a conf before, likely taking a full-time job once graduated in June), I just want to give my two cents.<p>First off, I applaud her for doing what she&#x27;s done so far. I think many people here forget the confidence that takes at 16, and especially with the pressures of public high schools for everyone to conform into the perfect image of a &quot;teenager&quot;, it&#x27;s great that she&#x27;s found her passion and is pursuing it. Keep it up.<p>Now, about pulling her out of high school. I think it&#x27;s really something on a case-by-case basis, and not something that should just be judged here by people without all of the facts. I think the biggest takeaway is that if she&#x27;s happy with this path, then she should do it. Simple as that.<p>Personally, though, I wouldn&#x27;t choose to do that. I&#x27;ve had the opportunity to do so, and I did consider it for a while. In the end though, I&#x27;ve decided to finish high school at a public school. I have a few reasons behind this:<p>1. My friend group. While I don&#x27;t know what her social situation was like, for me, my friends have been very important to my success. As a group, we&#x27;re diverse in our interests. We all have different ideas for what we want to do next, and how we&#x27;re going to get there. This is what makes it awesome. The tech industry is, largely, a monoculture. So, I think it&#x27;s very important to have people around you who are diverse, so you can grow as a person by knowing someone else&#x27;s ways, views and ideas. This is important in high school especially, since it&#x27;s the time when you&#x27;re finding out who you really are.<p>2. Class selection. Building on the last reason&#x27;s spiel on diversity, I definitely think having a diverse class selection is great. When I started high school, I already enjoyed programming, and was considering it as a career. So, my class choices were chosen to be everything I needed to move onto a good post-secondary program. However, the next year, I needed an extra class to fill out my timetable, and on a whim decided to take a film class. This turned out to be one of the greatest decisions I&#x27;d made. I got to meet some really great people (that are some of my close friends now!), the class itself was extremely enjoyable, and it really opened my eyes that not everything has to be focused on one goal. If anything, taking this course that wouldn&#x27;t be for post-secondary has helped my career, since I have an additional outlet to be creative in, plus another potential career path that I&#x27;d enjoy for later.<p>3. Social situations. Again on diversity (I think this is becoming a theme here... ;-)), public school gives you the, uh, &quot;opportunity&quot; to deal with many... interesting people. In other words, you have to deal with people that aren&#x27;t like you. While it&#x27;s not always easy, I think it&#x27;s one of the biggest things that public schooling can teach you. In life, not everyone is like you, and if you&#x27;re immersing yourself in a monoculture early, you miss out on being able to deal with these people. It&#x27;s a life skill, and for anyone wanting to move up into any sort of management, it&#x27;s something that I think is necessary.<p>Overall though, this is all just my opinion. I&#x27;m not here to say that what this father did was wrong, and that his daughter will regret this, blah blah blah. In the end, I&#x27;m sure she&#x27;ll be just fine, and likely be successful. Doing things differently is great, and while it may not always be 100% optimal, that&#x27;s also life. Nothing is 100% optimal. We&#x27;re all just trying to make the best choices we can. This father thinks he&#x27;s done so, and good on him.
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pearjuice超过 10 年前
Teaching your daughter the flavor of the month Javascript framework, pulling her out of high school due to a moment of fame and referencing &quot;nice new monitors and as many couches as chairs.&quot; as &quot;The classroom even looks pretty silicon valley-ish&quot;.<p>Anyone else has any finishing ingredient of this recipe for disaster? Ah right, forcing feminism in tech by pushing your daughter into speaking at public events.
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