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Why You Should Tell Your Children How Much You Make

175 点作者 mikek超过 10 年前

32 条评论

sdrothrock超过 10 年前
I agree that parents should tell their kids how much they make. Even better, bring them in on the budgeting process, explain how much of their paycheck goes to taxes, etc.<p>I was raised not knowing any of that -- my mother absolutely hated talking about her finances with me. So I never really had a clue what a reasonable wage or salary was, or how much I would actually lose to taxes, or what a reasonable budget was... and of course, none of that stuff was taught in high school, either.<p>Even with the FAFSA, etc., I remember being told to just sign it and my mother would insist on taking the form and going to fill in the blanks herself.<p>I think that parents talking to their children about this kind of thing provides them with a healthier financial barometer overall, which would be useful when they start getting pounded with credit card pre-approval letters out of the blue.<p>Edit: Even now, as a 29-year-old adult, I have no clue what my mother makes, what (if anything) she has for retirement, what she inherited from her father last year, the status of the house she lives in, etc. She just won&#x27;t talk about that kind of thing because it &quot;has nothing to do with me.&quot;<p>As a child, it can be a handicap, but as an adult, it can be massively stressful. I can understand the need to be independent (especially as a single mother), but money is just a sensitive topic when there isn&#x27;t a lot.
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Too超过 10 年前
Revealing the salary is one thing but i think revealing the monthly expenses is even more important for kids to realize how much money actually just &quot;disappears&quot;, into recurring bills like rent, for one to live a comfortable life.<p>There&#x27;s a reality TV show in Sweden, called the teenage boss(tonårsbossen), where in each episode the teenager of a family get&#x27;s to control the whole budget for his family for one month. Surely there&#x27;s selection bias on what type of family they put on the show but it&#x27;s quite revealing to see how kids think when they get that much money because they don&#x27;t understand how much or how little it is. Even when the hosts help them lay out a budget they always always end up overspending. First they go buy tons of clothes the first week, they give their parents less pocket money than what they themselves normally got before, the food bill is always double because they don&#x27;t know what&#x27;s normal price for grocery items, there&#x27;s always some recurring monthly expense that&#x27;s easy to forget like gas for the car, they don&#x27;t take into account unexpected events like the fridge breaking down, nothing goes into savings etc etc.<p>I think every kid would benefit greatly from doing this kind of exercise at least once, at least letting them join the budgeting and let them see where the money goes.
ProAm超过 10 年前
I sort of feel like is a middle class&#x2F;upper class problem or lesson to be learned. When you grow up poor none of this is really a mystery. You understand very early on the value of a penny, where it goes, and why it&#x27;s spent. Still a valuable lesson.
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ChuckMcM超过 10 年前
We got our daughters checking accounts when they were 8. (actually USAA savings accounts that you could write 3 checks a month on) and we set up some auto-deposits for their allowance.<p>Generally the question wasn&#x27;t about how much money we made, rather it was about how money &quot;works&quot;. And why would you save it rather than spend it, and what is debt, and what are luxuries. We also made some of the things that other parents were paying for out of pocket, come out of their allowance. That exercise forces them to choose amongst a couple of things to spend their money on, and they get to experience both good and bad choices. Like spending money on going to a movie versus waiting and buying it as a DVD and having a movie night at home with your friends. Same net expenditure of cash but very different experiences.<p>And we tried to impress upon them the notion of &#x27;current&#x27; money (money in the bank) &#x27;future&#x27; money which was inbound assuming you met the conditions, &#x27;mandatory&#x27; expenses, and &#x27;optional&#x27; expenses.<p>The goal was to show how saving money &quot;pushes&quot; it into the future while taking on debt &quot;pulls&quot; money from the future into the present.<p>I think in general we were reasonably successful. They all knew how to balance a checkbook and make a budget when they got to college. The hard part as a parent is to know that you could make a temporary hardship &quot;go away&quot; but holding back so that your kids can get the experience and feeling of getting past it. The trick is doing it early, so the &#x27;hardship&#x27; is they don&#x27;t have any money left to buy ice cream from the snack shop, rather than something more serious like coming up with enough money to pay first and last month&#x27;s rent on a new place to stay.<p>The only thing I really didn&#x27;t like about the article was responding &quot;Why do you ask?&quot; which is always heard as a challenge by my kids, as if they have over stepped their place by asking a question. I much prefer, &quot;Great question! What are you trying to figure out or understand?&quot;
nsxwolf超过 10 年前
&quot;he decided to do something that many parents would consider radical: show them exactly what he earned.&quot;<p>Huh? Really? That&#x27;s radical? I always knew how much my mom made. Do parents really keep this from their children, the same way they keep it from other coworkers?
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MichaelGG超过 10 年前
Budgeting with older kids, as part of teaching about general responsibility, is probably a great idea. I&#x27;m also bewildered why anyone would hide their finances from their kids. Neat idea to dump it out in cash and divide it out, as an easier way to visualize.<p>But, some kids worry. Having to tell them we have to be careful with money, that we can&#x27;t do something because of money... eh, that introduces an unnecessary thing for them to be concerned about when they&#x27;re only 6, or 8 or so. They&#x27;re already terrified about death, plus all the other &quot;stresses&quot; of whatever kids deal with (getting to the bathroom on time, not being made fun of, studying, etc.).<p>So my line to my kids is: I earn enough, and I always will find a way. You should never worry about this. Don&#x27;t let money be the deciding factor in decisions. Even at one point when I was a kid and we were on food stamps, my father always tried to make it clear that money would not be a concern. Dealing with teen stuff, no matter how insignificant it now appears, plus worrying about my parents budgeting? What&#x27;s for?<p>As far as &quot;Why can&#x27;t I get &lt;newitem&gt;?&quot; -- I don&#x27;t buy them every toy they want, but that&#x27;s due to clutter and accumulating shit. I let them get any new toy they want, if they trade in several old toys (so that they&#x27;d approach only having a few, plus presents that don&#x27;t require trade in). That&#x27;s a separate discussion though.
titanomachy超过 10 年前
&gt; Each month, she has them sit with her while she pays the tuition online, asking them to click the button. “We jokingly say that it costs $92.50 to send them each to school every day,”<p>I don&#x27;t like this at all. If you decide to send your kids to private school, don&#x27;t lord it over them and make their education a source of guilt to keep them in check.
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j_lev超过 10 年前
One of the benefits of growing up Jewish is that business talk at the dinner table each evening drowns out even the TV. Of course, you learn pretty quick that not all families are like this.<p>I&#x27;m happy to give lessons but I&#x27;ll never give an exact net worth. Stealth wealth FTW<p><a href="http://www.joshuakennon.com/stealth-wealth-why-americas-rich-hide-their-money/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.joshuakennon.com&#x2F;stealth-wealth-why-americas-rich...</a>
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jtwebman超过 10 年前
When I was 16 my dad made me balance the check book and pay all the bills for a year. It is why I feel I am successful now. He also taught me to ask how can I expand my means to afford something vs cutting. A great idea for sure!
pjungwir超过 10 年前
I was surprised to read so much concern about children learning what their parents make or what their home is worth, as well as concern they might share that with outsiders. I have three kids, aged 1, 3, and 5, and I don&#x27;t worry about that. Maybe it&#x27;s because I&#x27;m a freelancer so I think about income more often than someone with a stable paycheck. Do other people fear those things?<p>If so, and sorry to veer off into a different thread, but maybe salary and home value are good answers to &quot;I have nothing to hide.&quot; :-)
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bhousel超过 10 年前
I kind of don&#x27;t want them telling the other children in school how much I make.
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programminggeek超过 10 年前
Information has value and power when it is scarce and loses value when shared. Honestly, I think more people should be open about how much they make, how much profit margins their businesses have, etc. because transparency in the long run deflects a lot of questions and problems.<p>Many&#x2F;most people are basically rational and understand things in somewhat reasonable terms, even if greed is problematic. For example, Bill Gates is worth like $50 billion or whatever. I&#x27;m not rushing to take his money, company, or job.<p>Yet, if I know that I&#x27;m charging $85&#x2F;hr. for developer consulting when my competition is charging $150&#x2F;hr. perhaps I&#x27;d be better off adjusting my rates higher. Or, at $250&#x2F;hr if I&#x27;m already top of market maybe I don&#x27;t have as much room to raise my rates.<p>Knowing that I can make rational decisions about what to charge and so on and people won&#x27;t freak out about that. The way people handle salary negotiations by and large is really bad simply because we are a nation of price takers, not price setters. Thus, the majority takes what they are offered and doesn&#x27;t bat an eye.<p>The handful of people with professional negotiators or who are good negotiators themselves are making far more than everyone else.<p>If you tell your kids how much money you make and explain why, they have a better chance of making the same or more money than you do.
stegosaurus超过 10 年前
I personally figured most of this out whilst growing up by just, well, looking at what we had, where we lived, occupations, etc. All the data is there... I saw a world dominated by fun coupons, researching it was just a given, like asking &#x27;why is the sky blue?&#x27;.<p>What I can remember intensely, is thinking that the amount of work that seemed to occur for what we had seemed obscene. It was very difficult not to see that as a failing in my parents. (I don&#x27;t feel that way now). Why would they choose to work for such low pay? The people on the TV, on the Internet seemed to be doing well.<p>I try, but it&#x27;s hard to not feel despair when reading these sorts of articles. There are so many issues with this... the college debt throwaway, for example. The choice looks completely different to a poor child in social housing, than it does to a child whose parents are well on the way to owning the family home outright.
informatimago超过 10 年前
Since there&#x27;s some discussion in this thead about inequality of revenue between generations, I would mention here Stéphane Laborde&#x27;s &quot;Théorie Relative de la Monnaie&quot; <a href="http://trm.creationmonetaire.info/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;trm.creationmonetaire.info&#x2F;</a> or &quot;Currency Relative Theory&quot; <a href="https://github.com/informatimago/LatexTRM/blob/master/LateXTRM-en.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;informatimago&#x2F;LatexTRM&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;LateXT...</a><p>Basically: instead of performing QE by giving all the new money to banksters, we give a Universal Dividend to all human being, at a rate determined from the average lifespan, so that each human being gets the same relative amount of money during his life who ever he is, and WHENEVER he lives. (Of course, this doesn&#x27;t precludes normal economic exchanges, and therefore differences in paychecks, but at least the QE are done systematically in a reasonned system, contrarily the aphasard releases of the Fed). (For the European Union, given the average lifespan here, this would give a Universal Dividend of about 500€&#x2F;month).
taeric超过 10 年前
The day when folks are in no way defined by their income can not come quickly enough. It saddens me to know that it will likely not be near my lifetime.
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carlob超过 10 年前
&gt; Some parents start with even larger line items. Trisha Jones, a stay-at-home mother in Norfolk, Va., sends her children, who are 6 and 8, to private school. Each month, she has them sit with her while she pays the tuition online, asking them to click the button. “We jokingly say that it costs $92.50 to send them each to school every day,” she said, adding that they know that the daily number is akin to a nice Lego set. “But it’s a privilege to go to the school that they do, and we want them to know that we are making sacrifices to send them there.”<p>This really made me cringe. Specifically why should you admit to your kids that what they have is a privilege. Isn&#x27;t it the same as saying we&#x27;re rigging the contest? We&#x27;re making the world more unjust?<p>Your kids should know that is not really that good for them to be away from the poor&#x2F;slow&#x2F;racially inferior&#x2F;wrong religion kids (or whatever your reason is), but it&#x27;s actually really harmful for the public school kids not to have the kids who can afford private school in the same class.
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kapad超过 10 年前
I had parents that shared quite a bit about money with me.<p>I remember, when I was a kid, any cash gifts that I got on my birthday, festivals, etc. would be divided in two equal piles. 1&#x2F;2 would go to my savings account, and the other half would be given to me to do with as I pleased. This was my parents way to encourage savings.<p>A bit later, when I was in the 5th of 6th standard (we don&#x27;t call them grades), and my parents spoke to me about their investments in the stock market, I began saving up my half of the gifts (from the last paragraph) and invested that in stocks. They really liked me doing this, and decided that they will match all my investments in stocks (really tiny sums of money then) provided I do not sell until I am eighteen. I realise now, they wanted me to get into the right kinds of stocks. Stable enterprises, with good leadership, etc. After seeing me doing this for about a year, they handed me my savings bank account, with all the 1&#x2F;2&#x27;s of all cash gifts I had been getting for all my life (about 14&#x2F;15 years). This was there way of telling me that they had some confidence in my dealing with money. At around this same time, my dad was buying a new office. He spoke to me about the loans that he would be taking to buy this. There was some cash that I had (a gift from my grandfather, to be given to me when I turned 18) and I asked him to use that to offset the loan. I&#x27;d already realised, that I was not going to need this money until 18, and it made more sense to use this cash and offset the loan. Why pay more interest to banks that you need to?<p>On the whole, there have been a lot of incidents in my life, where my parents have been rather open about their income with me. Now, I&#x27;m 2 years out of college, I see the difference, in that, I am able to advise friends and colleagues, some older than me, on where to invest cash, how to save tax and a few stock tips a year. (I&#x27;m still a really long term investor :) )
jakejake超过 10 年前
My parents completely hid all finances from me and my sister growing up. My mother in particular would be horrified to think that their kids were stressing out over mortgage and utility bills. They didn&#x27;t have to sit down and show us their pay-stubs for us to know roughly what types of things we could afford though. Perhaps if my parents had been really wealthy and could afford anything, then I would have grown up with no concept of money. But, as it were, I had a small allowance that I could spend as I pleased and I knew pretty well what price range we could afford for birthdays and such.<p>I would like to think I&#x27;m a moderately successful entrepreneur with a decent ability to manage personal and corporate finances. I&#x27;m thankful I didn&#x27;t have that &quot;adult&quot; stress on my shoulders and was allowed to just be a kid.
sheensleeves超过 10 年前
It&#x27;s inescapable if they go to college. That&#x27;s the only way I would have found out.<p>There&#x27;s a line on the FAFSA form.
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theVirginian超过 10 年前
I grew up with no idea how much my parents made and they often sent very conflicting messages about how much they had or how much we were able to spend, giving me money freely one minute and then screaming at me for being selfish about money the next. I never did have a clear picture and probably never will, after a while I didn&#x27;t care. If I got something I got it, if I didn&#x27;t then I didn&#x27;t. Instead of money being used as something I could earn respect with or be trusted with, they used it to control me and get me to do things whenever they wanted.<p>Now I am older and they desperately beg me to know about my finances. I don&#x27;t answer and I plan on never giving them the slightest clue. There is a complete lack of mutual respect and this is something I WILL NOT screw up with my kids if I ever have any.
shenoyroopesh超过 10 年前
I think the title could have been rephrased.<p>It&#x27;s definitely a good idea to build some financial sense from young age, helping kids figure out how budgeting works, where the money gets spent, how it all works, etc. It also works if they are able to learn why someone pays you that money in the first place - how a business makes profit because of your work, which justifies the salary (or some other value gained if it&#x27;s a non-profit organisation). Finally it also makes sense to let them understand money as a means of exchanging value, rather than some magical paper that just helps buy stuff.<p>The earlier they learn about stuff like interest rates, debt, investments, etc. the better prepared they are to take on their life.<p>However, just telling kids that &quot;hey kids, I make $xxxx&quot; and doing nothing after that is never a great idea!
jareds超过 10 年前
I knew what my parents made as long as I can remember. THey also explained there health care and retirement situation to me at a young age. This helped me realize that since they are teachers and were grandfathered into the systems before benefits started getting massively cut that I needed to take into account more then just my salary. While my starting salary was much higher then theirs with inflation taken into account I also realized that I had t start saving as soon as I got a job. I am lucky that I enjoy programming and it allows me to live comfortably. While if money were no issue I may have gone into history talking with them about finances made me realize that I should find a happy medium with something I both enjoy and will allow me to be comfortable.
zaroth超过 10 年前
Some parts of this article struck me as bizarre, like the &quot;Why do you ask?&quot; part. And the parenthetical &quot;this also works well for questions about sex and drugs&quot; was even worse! I guess in some cases it&#x27;s useful or important to ask &quot;Why do you ask?&quot; but using that line every single time? I think that would get old very fast.<p>The counter-examples seemed plastic. Who doesn&#x27;t tell their kids &quot;because it costs too much money&quot; when they ask for some stupid toy they are going to play with for 5 minutes and then forget. I explain the cost of things all the time to my kids, it would never occur to me to dodge the subject.
teekert超过 10 年前
There are some good tips in this piece I am definitely going to apply.<p>Growing up I remember very well that I always felt my parents had a near unlimited budget but that they just didn&#x27;t buy everything because they wanted me to learn that that was somehow bad. It real took until somewhere in my mid teens to understand that this was not the case.<p>My father never shared his salary. Taking all this cash home sounds like a lot of fun! OR perhaps you could just sit your kid down and make Python&#x2F;matplotlib script that shows some pi&#x2F;bar charts where you add categories... Get the kid excited about programming too ;)
wisevehicle超过 10 年前
I felt like this article actually begs a bigger question, why don&#x27;t we tell each other how much we make? I get the sense that because we keep this so extremely private, it makes it so much easier for the class division between the wealthy, the &#x27;middle class&#x27;, and the poor to continue to grow.<p>If everyone truly understood just how much less the &#x27;rich&#x27; people they know earned than any of the 700,000 or so folks in the global elite, would we still be having the same sort of disdain for progressive taxation?
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twiss超过 10 年前
&gt; [E]ven the youngest generally understand when budgets have become tighter and want to know why.<p>I don&#x27;t think this is true for everyone. Children could write off a lack of stuff to any reason other than &quot;budgets have become tighter&quot;, or give it no thought at all, or be proud that they are not spoiled. Also, &quot;I never thought we were poor&quot; stories are not uncommon. I don&#x27;t know if that&#x27;s a better way to go, but at least it&#x27;s sometimes possible.
sfjailbird超过 10 年前
I don&#x27;t tell my kid how much I make because they use it to compare with the other kids&#x27; parents. It is uncomfortable and embarrassing to overhear them bragging among themselves that their dad earns more than that ones.<p>It&#x27;s easy, if you don&#x27;t have kids, to theorize on how you should instruct and mentor your would-be offspring, but few plans survive first contact with the real world.
Cthulhu_超过 10 年前
&gt; “We jokingly say that it costs $92.50 to send them each to school every day,”<p>That might actually have an adverse effect. Kids doing worse at school for whatever reason, get a huge guilt complex because their parents pay a lot of money for them to be there. Reminds me of the &quot;disappointed Asian parents&quot; meme &#x2F; stereotype.
spacemanmatt超过 10 年前
I love seeing this. I run a full-disclosure household. We talk about money (savings, income, assets for now; they&#x27;re young) and careers and aspirations often. Justice themes bubble up naturally out of this. As a parent, I can only recommend bringing your kids into the conversation.
holri超过 10 年前
You should tell your children how much you can do and what you know.<p>Being is important, not having.
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DigitalSea超过 10 年前
I wholeheartedly agree. Our consumer-led marketing manipulated society casts a massive shadow over the reality of just how much things cost and no sum of money is too big. When you&#x27;re a child or teenager, you don&#x27;t have the pressures of life on your shoulders, you don&#x27;t realise just how hard things can be. You have no bills, little to no responsibilities and everything is so much easier.<p>I actually had this conversation with my wife the other day. We decided we would raise our child to be aware of just how much things cost and teach him from a young age to be successful in life and get the things you want, you have to work for them and that nothing is ever handed to you.<p>This is why I think it is important to instil good values into your children from a young age and teach them the importance of money, how it is earned and where it is spent. When they&#x27;re old enough to do things for themselves, encourage them to earn money through chores but also ensure they do some chores for free. Maybe give them a few dollars for mowing the lawn, but make them do the washing up and clean their room for free.<p>When I was about 10, my father who is a small engine mechanic gave me a full can of fuel, a whipper snipper and a mower. He then suggested I go door-to-door and ask people in the street if they would like their lawn mowed for $15 (for a small yard). When the fuel ran out, I had to use my own earned money to buy more fuel, oil (for two stroke mixture) and whipper snipper cord. I remember one stage I had like $40, but I spent half of that on fuel, oil and cord.<p>Because of that experience my father taught me, I believe it actually made me grow up to be more conscious of money and taught me the basics of running a business and managing money. I have very little personal debt, I earn an okay salary and have some savings. Sadly, we&#x27;re seeing the current generation getting into massive amounts of debt thanks to credit cards, expensive electronic items and even in-app purchases on our cellular phones.<p>I learned to be more budget conscious when I go shopping with my wife because I grew up going to the store with my mother who knew to go at a certain time of day to get discounted; fruit, meat and vegetables. The importance of buying in bulk, the importance of knowing what you want to buy by writing a shopping list before you even set foot in the store.<p>When I was growing up, money was a taboo subject that my parents didn&#x27;t like discussing in-front of me and my siblings. I would see my parents sometimes argue about money, not very often, but I didn&#x27;t really know first-hand some of the stresses until I got older and paid more attention. I wish my parents involved me and my sisters in the budgeting process so we could all be a little more grateful for what we had and the sacrifices my parents had to make raising us.<p>Honestly, I think the whole money subject should be taught in school. I know some schools do to an extent, but children need to be taught the honest basics and realities of everyday life financial responsibilities as an adult and the consequences of things like debt.
lolheheh超过 10 年前
You forgot that HN readers are cool bros who travel the world and code from cafes in Thailand while writing books about now to be cool. They don&#x27;t have kids.
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