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Tesla Motors Announces a New Home Battery

289 点作者 jnaveen超过 10 年前

36 条评论

brudgers超过 10 年前
<i>So, where does lithium come from? It comes from the Earth, of course, but it doesn&#x27;t require strip mining or blowing the tops off mountains like other resources do...most often, lithium is found in briny underground ponds. The liquid is pumped out and left to dry in the sun.</i><p>TANSTAAFL<p><a href="https://duckduckgo.com/?q=lithium+pond+photos&amp;iax=1&amp;ia=images&amp;iai=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencephoto.com%2Fimage%2F438264%2Flarge%2FC0115790-Lithium_evaporation_pond-SPL.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;duckduckgo.com&#x2F;?q=lithium+pond+photos&amp;iax=1&amp;ia=image...</a><p>Mining is mining. There isn&#x27;t a &quot;green&quot; form. Tearing holes in the earth is not the worst ecological damage or the great health risk. The big problem is the water...and it will run downhill from the Andes and wherever else Lithium is mined and into the Ocean.<p>The house off the grid is built on industrial infrastructure.
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jacquesm超过 10 年前
It&#x27;s very hard to beat lead-acid on:<p>- $&#x2F;Wh<p>- number of cycles<p>- ability to be recycled at eol<p>- loss of capacity over the lifetime of the battery (or beyond!)<p>- safety<p>It is easy to beat on<p>- power density<p>- weight<p>- maintenance<p>- mechanical stability (especially for fluid based cells)<p>- installation cost (lead&#x2F;acid requires a sealed enclosure venting to the outside to get rid of free oxygen and hydrogen)<p>The same batteries that work well for automotive applications will not do that well when you&#x27;re building a storage cell for a house.<p>Lithium-ion does not have a whole lot of edge over lead-acid deep cycle gel cells when it comes to stationary applications.<p>The biggest issue with Lead-acid is that if you don&#x27;t water them (if you use fluid based cells rather than gel based cells) that sulfur bridges can grow between the plates causing a cell to be shorted out. Gel based cells don&#x27;t have that problem and are common in deep discharge setups.
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gizmo超过 10 年前
It looks like Elon wants to ramp up production in the new Gigafactory right away, and create home batteries from the excess capacity. A Gigafactory running at full capacity should bring the cost of lithium ion batteries way down. Electric cars haven&#x27;t hit the mainstream yet, so he has to do <i>something</i> with the excess capacity, and this looks pretty straightforward.<p>So even if he sells these batteries at the break even point, he&#x27;ll still get much closer to an economically viable Model 3, because the battery is such an expensive part in an electric car and this will bring the price of batteries down.<p>(I&#x27;m not sure if my reasoning makes sense though, because the Gigafactory isn&#x27;t anywhere near finished yet, and according to wikipedia it won&#x27;t hit full capacity until 2020.)
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quarterwave超过 10 年前
I have home back-up power based on an inverter charging a lead-acid battery (located in a sheltered area outside the home), which costs about $100&#x2F;kWh. Usage is about 1-2 hours discharge per day. No matter how well serviced, I&#x27;ve found these batteries don&#x27;t last beyond four years. Hence I&#x27;d pay even $400&#x2F;kWh for a well-engineered deep-cycle battery that is safe, maintenance-free, and will last at least 10 years. Excluding balance of system, even.
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PanMan超过 10 年前
What would be the advantage of these LiPo batteries over traditional lead-based batteries? In car&#x27;s, I understand weight (and volume) are really important, but for stationary usage these seem way more expensive &#x2F; Wh stored?
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phreeza超过 10 年前
The &#x27;living off the grid&#x27; angle is a red herring. The main application of this would be solving the peak load problem, ie smoothing out the load on power stations throughout the day. It is not clear to me how a LiPo batter is better suited for this than other battery types though, especially since weight is not a concern for a stationary battery in your home.
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Already__Taken超过 10 年前
Can someone explain to me why being able to build off the electrical grid is worth all this effort since you&#x27;re still going to need running water, sewage, bins collecting, broadband and a number of other things?
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LeonM超过 10 年前
I&#x27;ve always been wondering why there have never been affordable local power storage solutions on the market.<p>I&#x27;d love to have a battery like this to store excess power from solar panels. Returning power to the grid is a waste in both efficiency and money (you just make the power company richer).<p>Unless you live in Germany (where there are laws forcing power companies to buy excess energy back against peak price), a battery should be the way to go.
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CapitalistCartr超过 10 年前
I&#x27;d love to have a self-contained electrical system for my house. I&#x27;d preferentially wire my home with a DC grid alongside the AC, but there&#x27;s no standard. Do I run 120v, 240v, 5v, 12v? Which interface do I use? Barrel connectors, USB, cigarette lighter? If we have a large-scale movement to household DC, we&#x27;d have these things hammered out without me rewiring every appliance.<p>If these obstacles were overcome, almost everything in my house could run on DC. Most stuff either converts to DC internally, or doesn&#x27;t care.
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PhantomGremlin超过 10 年前
Sure, Musk makes it sound sexy, but do we really need to use Lithium in a stationary application? I&#x27;d probably be happier with a battery that weighs twice as much but costs half as much. Those might not be the exact tradeoffs, but that&#x27;s the general idea.<p>However, I don&#x27;t know much about the details of battery technology, so I could be completely wrong. If traditional technologies such as lead-acid were up to the task, then someone would have already made a big business out of using them. Does that make sense?
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PinguTS超过 10 年前
The question is: Will it be new battery just for homes or will it be a recycled&#x2F;repurposed battery from &#x27;old&#x27; Teslas?<p>It think it will be the later one. Elon is just thinking ahead. There is nothing really new in this story. Everything is just made up. It is quite accepted within the industry, that when the car battery has a capacity of less than 70% to 80% it needs to be replaced. But what should the car company, in this case Tesla, should do with battery? Of course, it will be re-packaged and as such repurposed for other use. What other use case is there? The other use case is Solar, especially as his friend runs a Solar company. What in incident.
unwind超过 10 年前
Could someone please fix the truncated title? My editorial advice would be to just cut from the semicolon.
joosters超过 10 年前
Have Tesla solved any of the problems that have prevented people from selling large storage batteries in the past?<p>A big issue is that you don&#x27;t get that many charge cycles, especially with lithium-based batteries. So, filling up the battery with solar power during the day, then running your house from the battery in the evening, will soon fall to pieces if the battery doesn&#x27;t last a decent number of years.
meesterdude超过 10 年前
Awesome! and great news for the renewables.<p>Right now, if there&#x27;s a storm or what have you you can lose your heat, your power, your water - everything. Its a bit like the mainfraime&#x2F;terminal days - everything is centralized, and represent single points of failure for the citizens it serves.<p>But with energy you create yourself, and things like water recycling or indoor farms, we could go fairly far in self-sustaining units. And instead of the grid, there could be local community sharing so if your power&#x2F;water goes out you can pull from a local grid. It doesn&#x27;t need to be in every home, but something more distributed means more resiliency in the system overall, and thats handy in a lot of scenarios.<p>All that&#x27;s a ways away though - but making the energy storage better &#x2F; cheaper is an important step.<p>But I&#x27;m curious of the environmental factors in battery production &#x2F; lifetime &#x2F; recycling, can anyone comment on the impact these batteries represent?
m-i-l超过 10 年前
In addition to doing things like storing any excess solar power you might have, it could also be used to charge up at night on off-peak rates (&quot;Economy 7&quot; in the UK) and release during the day to reduce your peak rate electricity consumption - whether it would be financially worthwhile to do so would depend on a number of factors.
phkahler超过 10 年前
When will homes be built with sensible electricity distribution? So often they put the breaker panel in the basement. I want a small utility room or closet where I can install inverters or this battery. I want to be able to run 220V to my stove, laundry, garage (car charging), battery storage, and AC relatively easily - none of these is in the basement (except the laundry in some home I&#x27;ve lived in). Also, if a basement floods, how is one supposed to go down there to access the panel without risk? And it&#x27;s darkest down there too. It just seems to be the stupidest place to put it. What&#x27;s up with that?
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ChuckMcM超过 10 年前
Seems like just yesterday [1] I was saying they could do this if they wanted to. :-)<p>The first challenge is to make the operational cost of a solar + battery system less than the cost of buying your power straight from the grid. The second is to include capital costs in that calculation and still come out at break even or ahead.<p>[1] <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9055177" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=9055177</a>
fidotron超过 10 年前
It will be interesting to see the market reaction to this regarding the value of electricity generation companies.<p>Governments that lean too heavily on taxes or state run monopolies for energy generation should also be concerned. There are places that tax generation from sources like the wind (for example, Nova Scotia), so I wouldn&#x27;t be surprised if we see solar tax appear.
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Shivetya超过 10 年前
I disagree that the long term storage stationary storage is extraordinary, at least from the individual home standpoint, it does have great utility application (for windfarms&#x2F;hydro&#x2F;etc) and likely would help some businesses offset day time surcharges by charging storage at night.<p>Still for home use, I would prefer a large lithium pack to be outside my home.
Sir_Substance超过 10 年前
This still doesn&#x27;t solve the essential problem with these batteries:<p>They&#x27;re about $20k each, and they only last about 4 years.
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slfnflctd超过 10 年前
Yawn. I&#x27;ve been following this concept, and a wide array of very talented scientists working on it, for years now.<p>Any of the below projects, should they ever see the light of day (you&#x27;d think out of this many, at least one will make it eventually), stands a good chance of being quite superior for this application in just about every way:<p><a href="http://www.eosenergystorage.com/technology-and-products/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.eosenergystorage.com&#x2F;technology-and-products&#x2F;</a><p><a href="http://www.ambri.com/technology/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ambri.com&#x2F;technology&#x2F;</a><p><a href="http://www.ultrabattery.com/technology/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ultrabattery.com&#x2F;technology&#x2F;</a><p><a href="http://www.axionpower.com/Technology" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.axionpower.com&#x2F;Technology</a><p><a href="http://www.lightsail.com/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.lightsail.com&#x2F;</a><p><a href="http://www.drexel.edu/now/archive/2014/November/MXene-clay/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.drexel.edu&#x2F;now&#x2F;archive&#x2F;2014&#x2F;November&#x2F;MXene-clay&#x2F;</a>
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forgotAgain超过 10 年前
Source Bloomberg article <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-12/tesla-planning-battery-for-emerging-home-energy-storage-market" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bloomberg.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;articles&#x2F;2015-02-12&#x2F;tesla-plan...</a>
boris超过 10 年前
Today I went to pick up two 100AH lead-crystal batteries for a long-run UPS (we now have regular load-shedding here in South Africa). If I believe all what I have read about them online, they are amazing, compared to lead-acid. Crazy heavy though (33kg each).
Altenuvian超过 10 年前
I see &#x27;em audiophiles drooling over this.<p>just look at this homemade battery in some audiophiles basement:<p><a href="http://6moons.com/industryfeatures/roadtourlivingvoice/3.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;6moons.com&#x2F;industryfeatures&#x2F;roadtourlivingvoice&#x2F;3.htm...</a>
BurningFrog超过 10 年前
Tesla could offer an &quot;attachment&quot; to their cars that let them serve as a home battery when parked.<p>You&#x27;d have to let it charge up before going driving, but for home owners who don&#x27;t drive much, that could be very cost effective.<p>Unless I&#x27;m missing some complication?
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vermontdevil超过 10 年前
Wonder how this would compare with Bloom Energy Server[1]<p>I recall Apple made some purchases or investments in these products.<p>[1]<a href="http://www.bloomenergy.com/fuel-cell/energy-server/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bloomenergy.com&#x2F;fuel-cell&#x2F;energy-server&#x2F;</a>
psaintla超过 10 年前
Why is living off the grid the main objective here? I live in a suburban area that occasionally has power outages. Right now I&#x27;m considering the purchase of whole house generator but if I could have a battery instead I&#x27;d do it.
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buckett超过 10 年前
Maybe having a battery pack like this at home would mean you could recharge your Tesla car much faster as you&#x27;re not limited by the grid supply to your home? A bit like having your own Supercharger station at home?
diltonm超过 10 年前
We could have used this last week. A pole was damaged (I don&#x27;t know how, just that it was damaged) and in the middle of a sunny day we lost power for 1.5 hours. Really looking forward to this technology.
wavesum超过 10 年前
What puzzles me is the timeframe presented. What is the point of starting production in 6 months if the gigafactory is not up yet, and TSLA is production constrained just making the car batteries?
Iv超过 10 年前
The last piece for a wind-solar future. Ok, if this really comes to the market and can store 12-24 hours of a typical household consumption, we may be able to live off solar and wind.
krenoten超过 10 年前
Are orange and red terminals confusing to users? (I&#x27;m an electronics noob, maybe this is a convention)
nacnud超过 10 年前
Does anyone know if these could be a feasible energy store for people living on the Moon or Mars?
caniscrator超过 10 年前
If we were able to create individual or community power grids; imagine how much infrastructure could just be removed. Maintained by the individuals owning it, instead of these stupid power companies and the way they work now.
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offgridquest超过 10 年前
We have all lived through the improvements in construction with tools that don&#x27;t need to be plugged in and phones that are unplugged. The next logical step is homes that are unplugged and self power generating. There is an incredible gap in society in the U.S. created by the tax code whereby if you make $25,000 and are a family of 5, you receive enough tax and food benefits and medical insurance to be equal to the person that makes $65,000 per year. And if your income increases to $45,000, you will be losing money, so there is no motivation to reach that point. The Living Off The Grid topic has gone viral because those stuck in the gap seek a way up without increasing income, because it&#x27;s hard to increase income without hurting oneself. But the idea of downsizing and saving up has become popular with it. Getting a little plat of land and a trailer or a tiny house for a time while saving up.... growing food, having chickens, all are ways to save up and gain without actual cash income increase. Adding solar power to the mix helps prevent power bills. It is also a terrific way to fire the local monopoly power company, who may or may not in your area have any decency of customer service. Without competition, why would they have to care. But the off grid movement is pulling the carpet out from under these government allowed monopolies and forcing competition. In the same stroke, it removes the tax burden from the homeowner that was included in the electric bill. If you have a solar or wind power system and charge your Tesla car too, then you have a completely tax free energy system. It sounds like it&#x27;s taking away from the government, but the neat thing is, this can also be used to alleviate financial strain on the government. If you can provide a self powered mobile home with rain-water collection to section 8 housing, then the government is also saving on those utility expenses. And land is cheaper a little further out. I recently bought 10 acres in Creek county Oklahoma. The power company wanted $10,000 to add one pole into the land and connection. I opted that it was better to spend that money on a solar power system. The same was true of water with huge expense, so I opted for rainwater and later to add a well. The up front costs associated with being on the grid for many rural areas, or adding more power poles is really more than costs will continue to be as they come down down down for self power generation. This is all exciting to me. We have to consider total impact. Hydro power is still a hugely terrific producer of energy. Rain that fills the lake.... the lake is a battery.... stored to produce energy. So rain makes our energy. This is still a much better solution than building batteries for large power needs. Yet the infrastructure and labor required to put in poles and wires is too high for homes in light of these modern developements. I look forward to an exciting and bright future. ~David Webster Offgridquest.com and Facebook&#x27;s Living off the Grid
harkyns_castle超过 10 年前
Go go Musk you bloody champion. If we can harness the sun, waves and wind and store it in batteries, and perhaps making those batteries is bad, it&#x27;s a better solution than continually burning fossil fuels that are destroying our forests, species, economies, and faith in humanity. I say keep doing what you&#x27;re doing (unless I&#x27;m proved wrong).