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Flash Boys a Year Later

69 点作者 ganeumann大约 10 年前

9 条评论

lordnacho大约 10 年前
I read the book a few weeks ago, and I was somewhat disappointed.<p>He focusses way too much on the IEX gang, and in a way that is puts the team members on a pedestal. Something about it made it sound like he spent a lot of time with this gang and not so much with others. I&#x27;m sure they&#x27;re smart guys, but I just don&#x27;t like the style and it seemed overdone to me. This is having worked in finance for 12 years and met loads of smart people with credentials and interesting stories.<p>Anyway, aside from the style I thought there was a lack of real investigation.<p>There was one interesting strategy mentioned, the BATS front-run. Superficially, it sounds like it might work. You see a trade on BATS, you pull and reverse. Okay. But what exactly is wrong with that? There&#x27;s a number of market makers who collectively make the market. A big fish comes in, scares away the minnows. Is that wrong? If there&#x27;s a big buyer, shouldn&#x27;t the price be higher? That discussion didn&#x27;t seem to be there.<p>Another interesting story is the Spread Networks line. Now, what exactly is being arbed between Chicago and New York? The S&amp;P Future vs ETFs in NYC? Vs the basket? Can that really support a dozen or so firms paying tens of millions each? Maybe it can, let us see the data. A recent conversation with an HFT friend did not reveal the answer. And what happened when the microwave towers came in? Is the line useless now? At the end, I wasn&#x27;t satisfied I knew WHY the speed was necessary. All I can think of is that there&#x27;s some very obvious trade that can&#x27;t lose money if you&#x27;re the fastest. What is it, and why is it a no-brainer? Is is anything untoward happening?<p>And then there was the funny order types. How about giving us a concrete example? Use such-and-such an order, cause the market to cross, end up at the front of the queue, profit. There was some mention of the multitude of order types, but the case isn&#x27;t made until you bring something concrete. Someone like Nanex might have data showing these shenanigans. I picked up another book by Tabb, who was mentioned, that has some more detail.
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encoderer大约 10 年前
HFT is not bad. Technology is democratized now. The best trading tech is available to consumers. The professional edge lies in their unlimited, low-cost leverage not in their technology. As a consumer, HFT is not my competition it is my order facilitator. A huge share of equity trades get their price IMPROVED by the market makers in order to capture the trade flow.<p>I love Michael Lewis. The Big Short was a very enjoyable read. I&#x27;ve read all of his stuff. I&#x27;ve run into the guy at the grocery store. But Flash Boys was just silly. Even if you believe it, the guy getting &quot;disrupted&quot; was not a retail trader but a broker crying that HFT was making it hard for him to dump orders on the market in 10,000 share lots.<p>Edit: I won&#x27;t respond to every critic, I respect your views but I&#x27;ve given it thought and have reached a different conclusion. You can quantify that orders are filled today more quickly, at better prices, with far lower commissions, and we have tighter bid-ask spreads, more penny-wide markets than ever before, and an explosion of ETFs that give retail traders access to something that they otherwise would need a futures contract ($100k in notional value) to trade. And of course in the world of algorithmic trading, there is technology not available to consumers. But a consumer today can have a setup at home that is as sophisticated as a professional trader&#x27;s setup. That never used to be the case. But the software is commoditized now. The trading platforms available to consumers, like Thinkorswim and Interactive Brokers, are top-shelf.
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dreamweapon大约 10 年前
&quot;Shook to its core&quot; is more than a bit overstated.
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gd1大约 10 年前
&quot;between high-frequency traders, who trade with computer algorithms at nearly light speed&quot;<p>Seriously, why the do we have to put up with this shit? &quot;Google, which returns the results of your search queries over a network at <i>nearly light speed</i>&quot;. &quot;Your remote control, which changes the channel on your television at <i>nearly light speed</i>&quot;. It is too stupid for words. Old school luddism.
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aswanson大约 10 年前
The best argument I have heard in favor of HFT was from Jim Simons of Renaissance Technologies. He said that the so-called market-makers would run at the first sign of trouble (as they did in the 1987 crash) and caused prolonged downturns, whereas the algorithms for HFTs were truly liquid market-makers and kicked back in the buying faster once prices got irrationally low.
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itschaffey大约 10 年前
I read the book the week it came out and it felt like watching a gripping thriller. I think the reaction&#x2F; debate to his book was a (welcomed) distraction for the Wall Street bankers. His book left much unanswered, inevitably, but I fail to see any progress&#x2F; change since he published it. His debate on Bloomberg with William O&#x27;Brien (BATS Global Markets Presidents) was legendary and great viewing. But ultimately Brad Katsuyama came out as the hero of the book and it would be interesting to know how the IEX Group are doing now... I hear there are plans to make it in to a movie? Perhaps I will be able to watch it as a gripping thriller...
chollida1大约 10 年前
I&#x27;ve spent more than a few words bashing Flash boys so I won&#x27;t try to do it anymore.<p>In a way I feel kind of bad for Michael Lewis. He&#x27;s had such success with earlier books that it must be hard for him to find a target for each new book. In my opinion this book was his first awful book.<p>Instead of finding data and following it through to reach a conclusion he starts with a trendy conclusion, HFT is bad, and then really contorts and reaches with his data to try and make his case. He was also hit by the issue of HFT starting to wind down around 2010 and really starting to wind down around 2012. Many HFT firms no longer concentrate on the US Equity markets alone, they do alot more volume in the futures, options and bond markets where there are alot more mathematical correlations, and hence more opportunities for mispricings to correct.<p>If you want a sound rebuttal, and in my opinion a better book have a look at this book:<p><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8577237" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=8577237</a><p>I find it more balanced, better researched and it provides a much better understanding of the HFT industry.<p>Having said that, credit where credit is due, he&#x27;s a tremendous writer and the book is a fun read that you can consume in 2 days. If you like it then I recommend his entire back catalog, they are all fun and informative reads.<p><i></i>EDIT<i></i> someone asked for an example of why I didn&#x27;t like the book so....<p>One of Lewis&#x27; biggest issues was what he termed HFT front running. This alone was a pain as front running already had a well understood meaning( it originally was meant for a intermediary who took your order and executed its own order ahead of yours, often buying the stock lower and selling it to you at a slightly higher price).<p>His example was that a HFT system would see an order for say Microsoft trade on the exchange BATS, say a buy of 1000 shares. The HFT system would then run ahead to all the other exchanges and buy up the remaining shares on those other exchanges, an ammount that might be 1000 shares or it might be 100,000 shares, so when the remaining part of the order to buy Microsoft got to those exchanges it would have to buy the shares from eh faster HFT system at a higher price.<p>This is down right silly for a few reasons.<p>1) it assumes that the order that got filled at BATS was either a market order or a limit order that was priced for more than the fill price, because if it was a limit for the same price as the fill then buying up the remaining shares won&#x27;t do the HFT firm any good:)<p>2) it assumes that the order was for more shares than what got filled on BATS, so now the HFT firm is exposing itself by owning shares it&#x27;s not even sure anyone wants to buy at the price its willing to sell.<p>3) it assumes that the HFT system can both buy the remaining shares at the original price and get to the top of sell side of the order book to sell those shares back. The HFt firm now has to take the risk that it won&#x27;t be at the top of the order book and even if it was right about steps one and two, a big if, it might not be able to capitalize on it as it can&#x27;t jump ahead of anyone who had previous sell limit orders at the price it now wants to sell at.<p>There are just so many unknown factors there that there is almost no way this type of trading system could be profitable.<p>Remember HFT firms worship at the alter of the law of large numbers, they make fractions of a penny per share traded but only do it if they have an edge ie 90% upside to 10% downside. There just isn&#x27;t any edge to be had in the above scenario, its just a heaping pile of risk.
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stillsut大约 10 年前
Just finished the book, was not shaken to my core.<p>When 99% of trading became computerized,very few &quot;trading desks&quot; knew anything about the foundation of what they did. They were still trying to be an 80&#x27;s guy.<p>Not surprising that learning deeply about the electronic system at the basis of trading was lucrative for the few who did,
mrdrozdov大约 10 年前
More of a question than a comment, but how do Trading Fees [1] effect HFT and the market? I suspect that high volume trades over time could be seriously effected by the trends in these fees.<p>[1] e.g. NYSE Trading Fees, <a href="https://www.nyse.com/markets/nyse/trading-info#trading-fees" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nyse.com&#x2F;markets&#x2F;nyse&#x2F;trading-info#trading-fees</a>
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