TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Why Many Smart, Low-Income Students Don't Apply to Elite Schools

109 点作者 eroo大约 10 年前

15 条评论

littletimmy大约 10 年前
As a low-income student who attended an Ivy League university, I&#x27;d like to mention one more reason about why low-income students don&#x27;t apply to elite schools.<p>They just don&#x27;t fit in.<p>I was the best student in my shitty high school and so I applied and happened to get into an Ivy League school. The environment there was so incredibly different I just didn&#x27;t fit in. Super-preppy good looking kids (they all are thin and tend to look good) who are invariably very well-spoken, totally expectant of all the resources lavished upon them, and just <i>know</i> how to talk to professors and interview for jobs and so on.<p>I was of a different breed. Ugly, fat, not well-spoken, no idea how to talk to professors, no gutso to challenge a nobel prize winner on his opinion. I was also somewhat shocked with the amount of resources provided to students. For example, for unpaid summer internships my college just gave out $5000 in living expenses so undergrads could do any unpaid internship they wanted. That&#x27;s about a quarter of what my family earns in a year. Not complaining, of course, but I hope you see how alien this environment was for me. Same was the case with interviews, I didn&#x27;t have a suit and I had no idea how to bond with an interviewer over our shared love for some exotic sport like skiing.<p>I just didn&#x27;t fit in. If I were to do it over again I would pick my Ivy League school again, but I recognize that it is an alien environment. I can totally see why another low-income student would be scared by all this and just not apply.<p>PS: If I went to a school like MIT maybe my experience would be different. I went to one of YPD, which are traditionally more preppy.
评论 #9224416 未加载
评论 #9224218 未加载
评论 #9224541 未加载
acadien大约 10 年前
The Ivy Leauge admits roughly 20,000 students every year [1]. Lets say they give one fifth of those get free admission. That is a total of 4000 kids which is practically nothing!<p>Roughly 5 million people are admitted to University every year in the US[2]! So maybe 0.08% of all University students get a free ride at an ivy league. Really this makes no difference except for padding the Ivy League&#x27;s statistics, its of little to no help for most &#x27;talented low income&#x27; highschool students.<p>[1]<a href="http://theivycoach.com/ivy-league-admissions-statistics/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;theivycoach.com&#x2F;ivy-league-admissions-statistics&#x2F;</a><p>[2]<a href="http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=98" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;nces.ed.gov&#x2F;fastfacts&#x2F;display.asp?id=98</a><p>Edit: To address most of the responses below. I&#x27;m implying that even if all appropriate students applied for these programs, as the article suggests, it wouldn&#x27;t make a difference because some tiny fraction of them would be admitted. There are very few opportunities for low income students unless they are willing to take on the burden of debt. Some lottery that gives a tiny fraction of them free tuition is not a solution, it is offensive to suggest they have opportunities they simply do not have. Fix the broken system, correct tuition costs!
评论 #9223263 未加载
评论 #9223331 未加载
评论 #9223272 未加载
评论 #9223258 未加载
评论 #9223209 未加载
rickdale大约 10 年前
This reminds me of the story about the high school kids that took on MIT and many other schools in an underwater robot competition and won. This exerpt from the article at the bottom sums it up:<p><i>During one scene in &quot;Underwater Dreams,&quot; the Carl Hayden team members head to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology to meet with members of the 2004 team they defeated. The MIT alums talk about their current jobs. Three are involved in underwater robotics, with one headed to a project in Antarctica. Another designs accessories for Apple products.<p>One student then asks the Carl Hayden team what they are up to.<p>It&#x27;s a scene that Mazzio says has made audiences in test screenings uncomfortable.<p>&quot;It&#x27;s heartbreaking,&quot; she said. &quot;Here you have kids that can compete and that clearly are innovative, that love to build and to fuel the country forward ... We need these kids, and they face these impediments.&quot;</i><p><a href="http://www.azcentral.com/story/life/az-narratives/2014/07/17/phoenix-high-school-win-mit-resonates-decade-later/12777467/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.azcentral.com&#x2F;story&#x2F;life&#x2F;az-narratives&#x2F;2014&#x2F;07&#x2F;17...</a>
评论 #9222934 未加载
评论 #9222991 未加载
randomnumber53大约 10 年前
It disappoints me that so many commentators on the NPR site infer from the title--&quot;Why Many Smart, Low-Income Students Don&#x27;t Apply To Elite Schools&quot;--that the article is essentially bashing &quot;big fancy private college[s]&quot; for being overpriced and not-worth-it.<p>In contrary, it author&#x2F;article is trying to find and explain why the above misconception exists.<p>And it seems as though the people this article would most help don&#x27;t even read it.
评论 #9223354 未加载
twblalock大约 10 年前
The Ivy League has a big problem promoting their financial aid packages. A lot of people don&#x27;t know that low-income students can attend for free. There is no catch, it really is free, as the article here has mentioned.<p>The Ivy League needs to do a much better job getting the word out about this to the students who might benefit from it.
评论 #9222905 未加载
评论 #9222890 未加载
评论 #9222928 未加载
评论 #9223148 未加载
protomyth大约 10 年前
This article hits it on the head with the local counselors and lack of recruiting past certain zip codes. The counselor problem is mitigated a little bit by the internet, but the recruiting is still problematic.<p>When I graduated in the late 80&#x27;s, I had score on both tests above what was stated (ND is an ACT state, but I took the SAT also), and a DOE (energy) summer program entrance (1 per state). There was no recruiting and our school had zero resources[1]. Only outside information that got back to me (I wrote several schools for admission information) was Texas A&amp;M with a oil industry scholarship and the state colleges. Went to the state college.<p>This is one of the reasons I get a bit riled up anytime someone says we have a talent shortage in the US. We have plenty of talent, its just not convenient.<p>To add insult to injury, my high school counselor screwed up a form that would have given me $2,000 a year scholarship. I was a bit peeved. He was a bit too busy with a rumored side business.<p>1) including the crap library - couldn&#x27;t use the library in the next town as it had a nice border to keep the riffraff out. taxes you know.
fiatmoney大约 10 年前
&quot;High-scoring on SAT&quot; (take this as a proxy for &quot;smart&quot;; after all, colleges do) &amp; &quot;low income&quot; correlates well with 3 groups in particular:<p>1) Recent Asian immigrants<p>2) Rural whites in flyover country<p>3) Urban children of (white and Asian) parents in low-paying prestige professions (teachers, museum curators, nonprofits, etc).
评论 #9223446 未加载
评论 #9223271 未加载
mattmurdog大约 10 年前
I still remember the day my father pulled me aside and told me in secret (my mom would have freaked out) that we couldn&#x27;t really afford college. He recommended that I stayed close to home and to go to a local school, which I did for 4+ years with an average of four hours a day worth of commuting. Occasionally, I also had a part time job that added almost two more extra hours of commuting because it took me to another side of the town and I had to walk half a mile to get to work after getting off the bus.
评论 #9224375 未加载
评论 #9224401 未加载
gojomo大约 10 年前
The article mostly takes as a given that attending the &#x27;elite&#x27; school would be better for these students. There&#x27;s one quote late in the article, from the article&#x27;s main source Stanford econ professor Hoxby, suggesting there&#x27;s a big lifetime earnings-boost after graduating from top schools.<p>But, the actual story is a bit more complicated. Some research suggests that admitted students <i>capable</i> of attending top schools, who then choose to go to &#x27;lesser&#x27; schools, do just about as well. Here&#x27;s coverage of one such study:<p><a href="http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/21/revisiting-the-value-of-elite-colleges/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;economix.blogs.nytimes.com&#x2F;2011&#x2F;02&#x2F;21&#x2F;revisiting-the-...</a><p>Also note that the studies supporting big lifetime earnings boosts for either &#x27;college&#x27; or &#x27;elite colleges&#x27; tend to be based on <i>graduating</i>, not just <i>enrolling</i>. Graduation is not automatic, especially among low-income&#x2F;first-generation admits. A student who chooses a nearer, cheaper, less-prestigous school may be increasing their chances of graduating enough to offset the premiums-conditional-on-graduation elsewhere.<p>There are some very-credentialist fields where school-prestige is of paramount importance – especially college education itself (graduate degrees&#x2F;professorships) and some high-dollar finance&#x2F;consulting&#x2F;law careers. But there are many other careers, just as attractive to students and society, where college-prestige is far less important. For these, if a student plans to settle back near their hometown, the education and contacts from a locally-respected institution may be as good or better than a far-away prestigious degree.<p>So one answer to &quot;why many smart low-income students don&#x27;t apply to elite schools&quot; may be that these students are really quite smart, and do actually know better what&#x27;s right for them.
评论 #9223845 未加载
RyJones大约 10 年前
Also, this week on This American Life: <a href="http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/550/three-miles" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thisamericanlife.org&#x2F;radio-archives&#x2F;episode&#x2F;550&#x2F;t...</a>
dataker大约 10 年前
The title has the assumption students should be applying to &#x27;elite schools&#x27;.<p>First, Stanford&#x2F;MIT&#x2F;... cannot get as many smart students as needed. If the top 10% of US students deserved an elite school, that&#x27;d be nearly 0.5M students&#x2F;year: an impossible number for these institutions.<p>Secondly, for many students, such education might not be the wisest choice. Fortunately, I went to a local college and had more time to learn things on my own. Instead of going to Psychology classes and studying for finals, I contributed to open source projects and went to hackathons. At Harvard, I would never do these things on my own.
weissadam大约 10 年前
It makes a lot more sense once you come to realize that these places aren&#x27;t about promoting and driving social mobility, and rather they exist to sustain existing positions by strengthening and fortifying class divide. (all the while collecting a nice tithe in the process) In essence, they serve the wealthy by keeping the wealthy, wealthy. They earn their keep in terms of donations for the service they provide.<p>The few token kids who come from the real world who are given a free ride each year are there just to provide window dressing. Most of them indeed seem out of place, and often have looks of dejection on their faces.<p>I have some personal experience with the Ivy League and I was really unimpressed. Since choosing a school is such a big gamble, especially in an increasingly competitive world, I don&#x27;t want to make claims as to what people should do... but...<p>I really do like the strong public university systems on the west coast. They are actually truly diverse places, and while some may be resource lean, I think they tend to lead to a lot more social mobility.<p>If you ask me, I think we&#x27;d be a whole lot better off if these places weren&#x27;t unconditionally lent the credibility they enjoy.
andrewchoi大约 10 年前
I worked with QuestBridge during college, and they&#x27;re making strides towards solving the outreach and awareness problem: <a href="http://www.questbridge.org/" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.questbridge.org&#x2F;</a>
ElectricFeel大约 10 年前
at a NON-Ivy League University, you are unambiguously the best or one of the best students so you can have more authority &amp; get a good job earlier
评论 #9223460 未加载
nerdy大约 10 年前
&quot;Why Many Smart, Low-Income Students Don&#x27;t Apply to Elite Schools&quot;<p>Seems rather self-explanatory, doesn&#x27;t it? &quot;Elite&quot; schools are typically outrageously priced so unless you (or your parents) have a bunch of money to throw around, accumulating Ivy League debt would seem rather stupid.
评论 #9225305 未加载
评论 #9223849 未加载