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Every freelancer starts out undervaluing their work

167 点作者 philipmorg大约 10 年前

16 条评论

jayshahtx大约 10 年前
&gt; pass on the cheap, low-value projects. Hold out for the clients that have budgets and value your time. Every second you spend with clients that don’t have money and don’t value your time is another second you have wasted.<p>I just finished my first 8 months of consulting work and while this is true, it is so difficult to actualize. When we had zero projects, I would take any meetings I could get. A part of me would hope that during the meeting, the client would realize where I could add value and increase their willingness to pay. In reality, however, it was the client who tried to push down our rate time after time. A hard lesson for a novice, but I lost hundreds of hours to clients that I knew, deep down, didn&#x27;t have the budget.<p>With that being said, this is dangerous advice to internalize pre-maturely. Without underpricing yourself in the beginning, it&#x27;s difficult to derive self-worth (IE: confidence) and increase your rate later on. And the last thing you want is an early freelancer to turn down work because they think they are worth more.<p>TLDR; Underpaid work might just be a rite of passage in freelancing. It was for me.
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lordnacho大约 10 年前
I don&#x27;t get why people are so keen on the per-hour model. This puts a lot of pressure on you to be fully productive and count hours like a lawyer. It also makes you think you&#x27;re losing money when you&#x27;re not billing, and the customer likewise feels the time&#x2F;money pressure.<p>I&#x27;ve negotiated fixed-price deals where I&#x27;m quite certain I can get the job done in x number of weeks, based on having done something similar before. And that&#x27;s a quite leisurely x weeks, where I&#x27;m not really feeling any uncertainty about any part of the project (ie I know what APIs will be used, business logic seems simple, research is done already). At the same time setting a leisurely schedule also means if there is something unexpected, you can spend a bit more time solving it. Or take a break when you&#x27;re ahead.<p>Regarding the customers, being choosy appears to be very important. Anyone who mentions outsourcing to (somewhere cheap) is politely moved on. Anyone who doesn&#x27;t grasp what they&#x27;re after (a social network, with an iOS and Android app, and videos, and ...) is quoted a longer timeframe. Customers also need to be made aware of the importance of feedback, as in the agile model. That way they always get what they asked for, and you don&#x27;t waste time on what didn&#x27;t come to mind.
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soft_dev_person大约 10 年前
&gt; No one is paying you for your “time,” they are paying you for a result, so stop charging for your “time.”<p>I wish regular employers would adopt this more as well. My value is what I do&#x2F;produce, not how much time I spent doing it. Some days I produce massive amounts of value, while others I barely get anything valuable done. I&#x27;d like a work place that would encourage me to go home and enjoy myself on the bad days and stay as long as I want on the good days, instead of expecting a regular 40 hour work week every week (I have flex, but on average...).<p>On the other hand, I guess my employer has this issue too. We usually have an upper (money or time) limit on a contract but charge by the hour. And this is pretty much the standard in my industry and a requirement from our clients. How did we end up this way? It makes no sense!
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ThomPete大约 10 年前
Every freelancer starts out not having a lot of experience being freelancers and so they make the typical mistake of thinking about their clients as their employer rather than as an investment in a relationship that needs to be developed over time.<p>Many get too hung up in the value of the services they provide when what they are really selling is trust.<p>The people that manage to make good money on freelancing aren&#x27;t always the best at what they do, but they are good at managing expectations and making the client feel like they made the right hire.
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Svenstaro大约 10 年前
Please don&#x27;t fuck around with the scroll behavior.
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jbhatab大约 10 年前
&quot;When I first started, I charged less than $100&#x2F;hour.&quot;<p>Clearly some of them were on very different paths than me. I taught myself and charging anything over $30&#x2F;hour would have been deceitful. I couldn&#x27;t imagine delivering that much value when I was starting.
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WA大约 10 年前
And yet, nobody answered question #2 (<i>What was your defining moment when you realized you were worth more than what you were charging</i>) like so:<p>&quot;I read a blog post or a book on how to charge more.&quot;<p>This is not to say that a post like this doesn&#x27;t have any value - or a book like Brennan Dunn&#x27;s book. But sometimes, when I read stuff like that, I wonder how much is actually <i>survivorship bias</i> and how much one can REALLY learn from a post like this.<p>It&#x27;s a bit like Amazon reviews of books: Half of them are for people who have read the book and start to discuss things retrospectively.
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ShirsenduK大约 10 年前
For every one good freelancer there are 100 crappy freelancers. The way you go up is via reputation. No better way than working with clients. When you have no reputation you start at zero when you have reputation you can command your price. If you want to start at a high rate prove yourself on GitHub. The gurus might not have been gurus when they started. 😊
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mgkimsal大约 10 年前
While I sympathize with the &#x27;value pricing&#x27; sentiment, and do use in in some pricing situations, part of the &#x27;value&#x27; measurement comes down to the other party&#x27;s ability to execute and extract the value from whatever I (or my team) produce. Having a time factor in there (X hours, Y weeks, whatever) and having part of all of the price be affected by the time put in reduces that issue, but also generally will tie you to lower profits of any sort.<p>I&#x27;ve done 100 hours of work for company X, and they were easily able to recognize &gt; $300k of value from that project. Another 100 hours of work for company Y, and they were struggling and complaining about a $7500 charge for that time, as they &quot;didn&#x27;t see the point&quot; (the original sponsor did, but the rest of the team wasn&#x27;t executing on the whole project, and nothing was getting done, hence little value arising from anyone&#x27;s time).<p>Finding more projects like company X, and fewer like company Y, becomes it&#x27;s own fun exercise.
zerr大约 10 年前
One thing to remember - those who charge 30K per week (e.g. patio11) do so by doing the work they don&#x27;t enjoy, and this would be even more non-enjoyable for more hardcore engineers here.<p>We love making money with programming, not by marketing&#x2F;SEO&#x2F;etc...<p>So the most interesting for us is how to make 30K&#x2F;week by only pure engineering.
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camdenre大约 10 年前
I had trouble remembering which question corresponded to which number as I read the article. It would have been nice to include the question above each person&#x27;s answer (or maybe a hover over the number reveals the number, or something similar).
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einarvollset大约 10 年前
I&#x27;m one of the &quot;gurus&quot; - feel free to ask more questions here (see bio for more background)
jmadsen大约 10 年前
There are so many tangents to go off on, but let me pick this one thing to comment on:<p>Read Justin Jackson&#x27;s story about the Mayor vs. the Ad Agency<p>Whichever price model you chose, you must learn early which clients are just wasting your time. There are no hard and fast rules, often it&#x27;s just a gut feeling, but here are the mistakes I used to make &amp; how to try to avoid them:<p>1) People who want to discuss their site for an hour or more on skype are not proper businessmen.<p>Look for people who&#x27;s time is money - they have some key questions for you, they don&#x27;t just want to &quot;chat&quot; about their idea. People who just want to chat - get your hourly rate mentioned early. If you tell them &quot;I charge X&quot; and they still want to talk a bit, then go with your gut, but don&#x27;t talk more than 15min. with anyone without giving some indication of the price.<p>2) Don&#x27;t lower your price unless you are repeatedly being rejected at that price level BY THE TYPE OF CLIENT YOU WANT.<p>That second part is important - your price will screen out the little projects you aren&#x27;t really after. Don&#x27;t worry if it is doing that job. But others will reflexively ask for a better deal, and won&#x27;t push back hard if you don&#x27;t budge. $10&#x2F;hr less at &quot;full-time&quot; costs you $20,000 year that you&#x27;ll never earn back.<p>What always seemed to happen to me was, the moment I agreed to a lower rate, someone would come along who was willing to pay full rate, and now I&#x27;m massively stressed trying to do everything.<p>3) Ask to see any specs and&#x2F;or designs early - offer to sign an NDA right up front<p>This is to let you see how prepared they are, how professional they are, and if the work is defined well enough to be able to offer a weekly rate. Weekly rates are great, but they can be a harder sell for certain types of work.<p>4) Weekly rates are NOT risky if you define the number of hours&#x2F;amount of work you can reasonable expect in a week.<p>Project rates are dangerous. Weekly rates just mean, &quot;Of course I can do that! You understand that will cost X, correct? Would you like to cut something else out, or just approve the overrun?&quot;<p>Weekly rates DO mean you need to be professional - you are promising 40-50hrs of actual work. For that reason I often go hourly to keep my personal flexibility.<p>4) Don&#x27;t run out an &quot;prepare yourself&quot; for the techs you&#x27;ll need for this project before signing the contract.<p>This is for the younger folks starting out, mostly back-end developers. Create a career learning plan of technologies you want to improve at, and use down time to study those. Don&#x27;t jump around to new languages&#x2F;server tools&#x2F;whatever that a potential client mentions &amp; never get good at anything.<p>To a point that&#x27;s ok, when you really ARE new and need to get familiar with what is out there &amp; being used, but get away from that habit quickly. If it looks useful, schedule it in your Career learning plan &amp; visit at the appropriate time.<p>I know there&#x27;s plenty more, but I think those are solid enough that I feel comfortable offering them to people.<p>Good luck!
discardorama大约 10 年前
Tangential: if someone wants to get into freelancing, how does one go about it? How do you find gigs? I&#x27;m into HPC, Hadoop, etc. and have been contemplating freelancing, for a change.
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buckbova大约 10 年前
Isn&#x27;t the title &quot;12 Gurus Got 5 Questions About How They Set Their Rate&quot;?
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mdpopescu大约 10 年前
Anyone else being asked for a user and password?