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Policing, Mass Imprisonment, and the Failure of American Lawyers

374 点作者 philrea大约 10 年前

13 条评论

CPLX大约 10 年前
There&#x27;s all this discussion of these issues, which relate to racism, economic issues, police brutality, crime, etc.<p>They seem complicated and nuanced and people throw their hands up and say well what can we do. The answer to that question is actually so simple you can say it in four words:<p><i></i>End the drug war.<i></i><p>Someone far more eloquent than me, The Wire creator David Simon, can flesh that out a little:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.washingtonpost.com&#x2F;rweb&#x2F;commentary&#x2F;want-to-fix-baltimore-end-the-drug-war-says-david-simon&#x2F;2015&#x2F;04&#x2F;29&#x2F;696c2063a2386c61999ad0ae2f96956d_story.html?tid=kindle-app" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.washingtonpost.com&#x2F;rweb&#x2F;commentary&#x2F;want-to-fix-ba...</a>
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neverminder大约 10 年前
&gt; The United States has 5% of the world’s population but 25% of the world’s prisoners.<p>This sums it up for me.
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teekert大约 10 年前
In the US, back in 2007, I met some dutch guys, aged 20 and 21, the 20 y&#x2F;o just spend a night in jail because he was drinking in a bar. He didn&#x27;t even realize, back home he was drinking legally for over 4 years (and for drinking before the age of 16 there was no real punishment). We had a good laugh, &quot;they must have a lot of jails here&quot; we said.<p>Lately the government is becoming more firm here (the Netherlands) as well. Beer drinking is now legal only from age 18 and up and serving minors is punishable by law now, a bar owner pays 1360 euro the first time but may risk closure of the establishment. Drinking in private is never punishable. For public drinking (but not for being drunk) the fine is 90 euros, 45 when below age 16. If you are sick from alcohol you will never be punished as it may be inhibiting for seeking help.
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sgdesign大约 10 年前
I&#x27;ve been &quot;stopped and frisked&quot; in France before, and it didn&#x27;t seem out of the ordinary at the time. I just assumed random identity checks was part of the police&#x27;s job. So I wonder how other countries&#x27; laws compare to the U.S. when it comes to random checks like this.<p>And of course, it happened maybe twice in my life, not a couple times a week.
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DanielBMarkham大约 10 年前
I completely agree that we overcriminalize things and imprison far too many people in the U.S. I&#x27;m 100% on-board with this. It&#x27;s our shame the way we treat non-violent offenders. A disgrace.<p>But guys, nothing is ever 100% one way or the other, no matter how much you support it. So you have to look at differing points of view -- unless the objective is just to have a good rant.<p>Here are the things that come to mind reading this:<p>- Yep, highest incarceration rates ever. Also violent crime has been dropping to unheard-of lows and the country is safer than it ever has been<p>- Prisons are not about justice or reform. [insert really long discussion here]. Political systems exist and function for political reasons. Therefore the prison system is made and maintained to keep society together. They don&#x27;t put the guy who killed you friend in the electric chair because of justice. They do it so you don&#x27;t kill him yourself, or have a lifelong vendetta against both him and the system.<p>- This piece is written by a lawyer. Do not expect it to fairly talk about all of the options. It&#x27;s invective; well-written, emotional, powerful invective. The goal is to make you turn off your brain and feel a certain way. Treat it as such.<p>- Although this is targeted at lawyers, whatever failings there are? Most likely a result of judges and elected officials -- in other words, the public. If the public wants something, and it wanted harsher sentencing, it gets it. That means changes need to occur with the electorate, not elite legal minds<p>- If the system is broken, it&#x27;s broken. Toss out all of that racism stuff, it&#x27;s a red herring. People shouldn&#x27;t have their civil rights abused because it&#x27;s the wrong way to run a country, not because they&#x27;re a member of an oppressed minority. If you want to win this fight and fix things, toss out every other issue aside from fixing the system. Sure, use various things like incarceration rates among blacks as an argument, but only very carefully. If this is a true problem affecting everybody (and I believe it is), then don&#x27;t attach yourself to one particular cause or the other. That&#x27;s just an easy way to lose the discussion.<p>We desperately need to fix things, but that&#x27;s only going to happen if we make both impassioned and dispassionate arguments -- and only if we understand the terms at stake. I&#x27;m not sure this article helped any, but it damned sure made me angry at how broken things are.
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alwaysinshade大约 10 年前
A recent article on HN made me realise that the U.S. might be on the right track for fixing this. The article was called Game Theory&#x27;s Cure For Corruption Makes Us All Cops [0]. The solution is in your pocket.<p><i>Imagine a city where police commit blatant traffic violations and never ticket one another. The authorities could decrease power inequalities by developing an online system in which all citizens are able to anonymously report dangerous drivers. Anyone who received too many independent reports would be investigated – police included. This sounds almost laughably simple, and yet the model indicates that it ought to do the trick. It is, after all, essentially the same system used by many online communities.</i><p>[0] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;aeon.co&#x2F;magazine&#x2F;society&#x2F;game-theorys-cure-for-corruption-make-us-all-cops&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;aeon.co&#x2F;magazine&#x2F;society&#x2F;game-theorys-cure-for-corrup...</a>
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dghf大约 10 年前
That is the nicest and most readable typography I&#x27;ve seen for a long-form article on the Web.
spodek大约 10 年前
&gt; <i>myths that the most serious types of crime affecting our society are the kinds of violent crimes that police patrolling the streets supposedly fight and that entire poor communities are “high-crime areas.”</i><p>...<p>&gt; <i>An intellectually rigorous system would, for example, study in great detail the connection between hundreds of billions of dollars in financial fraud and tax evasion and millions of easily preventable deaths, not dramatically reduce every year the resources devoted to fighting crime committed by the wealthy.</i><p>I&#x27;m glad when they said how over-policed some areas are that they also pointed out how we don&#x27;t police other areas at all and the effect of those other areas, like white-collar crime, are HUGE.<p>The article stressed injustices based on race and geography. It touched less on differences of injustices based on class. I don&#x27;t think it mentioned sex at all. Since I applied to volunteer with the Innocence Project -- <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Innocence_Project" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Innocence_Project</a> -- I&#x27;ve become much more aware of how what we all know, which is how much more men are targeted and jailed.<p>I volunteered because after seeing a documentary on the project I felt compelled to do something. The innocent people the project freed spent an average of 13.5 years in jail -- completely 100% innocent. My taxes are paying for the system this piece described.<p>You can do something to change the system too.<p>Edit: a quick search for the question below on differences in sex for the same crimes -- &quot;<i>Estimating Gender Disparities in Federal Criminal Cases</i>&quot; <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;papers.ssrn.com&#x2F;sol3&#x2F;papers.cfm?abstract_id=2144002" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;papers.ssrn.com&#x2F;sol3&#x2F;papers.cfm?abstract_id=2144002</a>, which I found in &quot;<i>Men Sentenced To Longer Prison Terms Than Women For Same Crimes, Study Says</i>&quot; <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.huffingtonpost.com&#x2F;2012&#x2F;09&#x2F;11&#x2F;men-women-prison-sentence-length-gender-gap_n_1874742.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.huffingtonpost.com&#x2F;2012&#x2F;09&#x2F;11&#x2F;men-women-prison-se...</a>, which has links to other research too.
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bsenftner大约 10 年前
There is an insidious reason driving our incarceration rates: prisons rent inmates to corporations as contract workers for pennies an hour. With guarantees of the number of inmates they will be supplied. Follow the money. Follow the money. Follow the money.
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quicksnap大约 10 年前
This article was a great read; it made me feel awful.<p>&gt; ... we’re starting to have symposia in which people talk about whether everything will be better if we give police more money to buy cameras for their lapels.<p>This was my mindset--that with more accountability, police will shape up. However, this article highlighted this solution as a symptomatic treatment.<p>I wonder how we could help address this major problem technologically?
lasermike026大约 10 年前
So when get over the depression of observing this system in action and the desire to leave the US I feel the desire for action. This problem of over criminalizing and over incarceration must be reversed and corrected. I refuse to live in a country like this unless this is corrected.
lubesGordi大约 10 年前
There is a question no one ever seems to ask anymore, &quot;Does the punishment fit the crime?&quot;
comrade1大约 10 年前
I guess the best you can do is hopethat you know the laws for the area you live in. The u.s. has so many laws that are different across states and also so many laws that are enforced arbitrarily.<p>Some states you only have to verbally identify yourself to police. Some states you&#x27;re required to show I.d. if requested. Some states you can decline a breathalyzer and other states you cannot.<p>And if you know the law then you should exercise your rights to the limit of the law. Of course they keep passing new laws to push the limits in the other direction. And I don&#x27;t think anyone wants to be a test case for throwing out a bad law in the courts.<p>The problem is similar here in Switzerland with the exception that there are fewer laws and that the federal government has very little power (unlike the u.s. With its strong federal laws). For example, here in one canton you can grow 2 marijuana plants for your own use while in another canton you will go to jail for even a small amount of marijuana.
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