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Eliminate the Gender Pay Gap by Banning Salary Negotiations

19 点作者 JrobertsHstaff大约 10 年前

22 条评论

Rainymood大约 10 年前
When I read stuff like this<p>&gt;EU pushes 40% quota for women on boards [1]<p>My jaw just like ... drops. Just image the OUTRAGE that would be caused if the headline was this<p>&gt;EU pushes 50% quota for women in coal mines<p>I am all for equality, but just handing everything to women on a silver platter, and making rash decisions because they are a different gender is just stupid policy making imo.<p>&gt;&quot;When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.&quot; (Goodhart&#x27;s Law) [2]<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ft.com&#x2F;intl&#x2F;cms&#x2F;s&#x2F;0&#x2F;65f494e6-f5e7-11e1-a6c2-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3ay6fJsEv" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ft.com&#x2F;intl&#x2F;cms&#x2F;s&#x2F;0&#x2F;65f494e6-f5e7-11e1-a6c2-00144...</a><p>[2] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Goodhart%27s_law" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Goodhart%27s_law</a>
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striking大约 10 年前
But doesn&#x27;t the gender pay gap come from choosing lower-paying jobs rather than explicit discrimination? The first one makes more sense to me, not just because there&#x27;s a US government case study on it, but because if it were an act of discrimination, every boss would have to be in on it a la Nash Equilibrium. Otherwise women would be the only hires, economically, because they&#x27;d be the cheapest source of labor.
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Hermel大约 10 年前
Maddox on how every company can instantly save 23% on wages: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=BDj_bN0L8XM" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=BDj_bN0L8XM</a>
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Almaviva大约 10 年前
&quot;The traits that both men and women associate with good negotiators are tied up with ideas of masculinity — such as rationality, assertiveness and self-assurance&quot;<p>Maybe those qualities are also helpful in a job itself, if not in general? Particularly in a senior position of leadership?<p>I don&#x27;t think you can have both a standard that&#x27;s different for what skills a woman should need learn to succeed, and at the same time have equality. This seems self-evident.
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return0大约 10 年前
I don&#x27;t understand why the media focuses on her as a promoter of equality. She has proven herself biased and overly militant which gives credence to those who say the loudest feminists don&#x27;t really care about women.
_random_大约 10 年前
Appointing her as a CEO was such a great idea. Reddit thrives on censorship and social justice.
steven2012大约 10 年前
This is a terrible idea and only persists the &quot;lowest common denominator&quot; policies of people who want to hold back better people through laws.<p>Instead why not have &quot;job agents&quot; that negotiate on your behalf?
nateabele大约 10 年前
Because plans like this have worked out so well in the past. [0]<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Health_insurance_in_the_United_States#The_rise_of_employer-sponsored_coverage" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Health_insurance_in_the_United...</a>
hackerboos大约 10 年前
There are things you can do to help harmonise pay between men and women. Giving men equal paternity leave to women for example.<p>I&#x27;m not a big believer in quotas as I think it can cause companies to choose people of a lesser skill set just because of their sex. That&#x27;s not to say there aren&#x27;t competent female engineers, managers etc. there are, it&#x27;s just that, there&#x27;s not enough of them and we need to be taking steps to encourage women into these industries.
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learnstats2大约 10 年前
This is the right goal but the wrong way of doing it.<p>Key section of this article:<p>&quot;A ban on negotiations leaves a lot of power in the hands of employers, who may not be making equal salary offers to men and women in the first place. The solution is transparency.&quot;
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breischl大约 10 年前
This seems almost comically narrow minded. Like it or not, negotiation is unavoidable. It&#x27;s how two actors come to an agreement.<p>Even if negotiation is banned for determining salaries, there are other negotiations to be done: how much vacation you get and when you can take, when you can work remotely (if at all), who gets which projects and which roles in them, who gets the better desk, who gets to go to the conference. Plus you have to negotiate with other companies about contracts, joint ventures, prices, schedules, and so forth. And the rest of life is a negotiation too, for the price of a car, rent, the price for the house, the cost of house repairs, where to go on vacation, and on and on right down to where are we going to lunch and who&#x27;s picking up the tab.<p>This is well-intentioned but the solution is not in the realm of possibility, like trying to solve broken bones by banning gravity. Everyone <i>will</i> have to negotiate about many things, no matter what the law says. You can either learn to do it to the best of your ability, or pretend it doesn&#x27;t exist and thus just suck as it.
nemik大约 10 年前
I find this policy incredibly sexist and am very surprised it came from a woman. If the cause of this was women&#x27;s supposed inferiority at negotiating, does Reddit prevent women from having sales roles where good negotiation on behalf of the company is important? How about as attorneys expected to negotiate for the company, are women excluded from those jobs?
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Coding_Cat大约 10 年前
Yeah, it&#x27;s a great plan.. If you&#x27;re a CEO. This would not lead to women being paid more, but everyone being paid less and having less negotiation-power when looking for another job or promotion.
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golemotron大约 10 年前
Maybe if you are Google you have enough inertia that you can afford to bypass talent than wants more than you are willing to offer. Others will just lose in competition for skilled workers.<p>People will go where they can negotiate a better deal. The market will make this strategy self-limiting.
Friedduck大约 10 年前
The idea that you can institute a policy that will account for all of the variables that underly someone&#x27;s performance is absurd. I recently left a company that started monkeying with policies like this (they they would make exceptions for, for favored employees.)<p>Develop an environment where your team can thrive. Provide opportunities for growth. Train those that show an aptitude. Listen to people. Pay attention to the values that you espouse and the resulting culture, and make adjustments where they&#x27;re at odds with your goals.<p>Putting a policy in place where everyone is at a lowest common denominator is one of the quickest ways I can think of to destroy initiative in a company.
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golemotron将近 10 年前
Am I reading this correctly? It says that we need to ban salary bargaining because women are unalterably worse at negotiation.<p>This means that companies are justified in not hiring women to do negotiation - sales, purchasing and acquisitions.<p>Social justice is eating itself.
tetrep大约 10 年前
This seems like it would leave a company with two options:<p>1. Losing employees who are better than others (i.e. deserve and want a larger salary) at the same job<p>2. Create a new role for every minute difference in skill level to allow better employees to earn more than their peers.<p>Neither of those seems to be too terribly good. I think making all salaries public-by-default and using that as a basis for negotiation would be far better for equal pay as everyone would know what they were capable of earning by looking at what their peers are payed.<p>IMO banning salary negotiations is just a move to save money; we can&#x27;t pay you more because we don&#x27;t discriminate against women.
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golemotron大约 10 年前
I think we should all be alarmed that people are developing policies that purposely handicap one class of people in order to create better outcomes for others.
dpweb大约 10 年前
&quot;Many people in the equal-pay debate argue that inferior negotiating skills are at the root of the gender pay gap.&quot;<p>Has not been my experience in pay matters and how is this different than the idea that women are not well suited to programming or math? Women are poor negotiators?
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mrdrozdov大约 10 年前
Why is this topic being surfaced now by the Washington Post? Ellen made this decision over a month ago.
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benihana大约 10 年前
&quot;At the bargaining table, women are in a no-win situation.&quot;<p>Word. Instead of teaching them techniques to help them win, let&#x27;s just do the easiest thing possible and make blanket rules so that <i>everybody</i> is in a no-win situation.<p>Equality.
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Dewie3大约 10 年前
&gt; Such policies do come with some risk. A ban on negotiations leaves a lot of power in the hands of employers, who may not be making equal salary offers to men and women in the first place.<p>But the article doesn&#x27;t mention how Reddit is planning to tackle that problem. So I remain vary about whether this is just a way to empower the employers, while getting some nice PR to boot.<p>&gt; In an effort to encourage equity and trust, a growing number of companies reveal the salaries of all their employees, sometimes even posting them online.<p>Somehow, it seems like this way to &quot;empower the employees&quot; also makes them more exposed, which is not a form of empowerment. Sure it makes them more informed, but not being able to choose to disclose their salaries or not is not a form of empowerment.