Ask HN: Financial independence in high cost of living city?

5 点作者 icki将近 10 年前

Hi HN,I'm a recent grad with about 2 years of professional experience, currently working as a software developer. Even though I think my salary is higher than average for where I work, I am still struggling to come to terms with the high cost of living in my city.The average cost of a detached home in Toronto has just passed $1M Canadian dollars (~$820k US). Even if I were to commit to a commuter lifestyle and live outside the city, a 20% down payment could require upwards of $100,000. Some say that a recession in the housing market is inevitable, but with so much foreign investment and insatiable demand for detached homes, I just find it hard to believe. Worst of all, with real estate prices having climbed ~10% each year for the past few years (faster than the average salary, and at a higher rate than a typical mortgage), real estate ownership is getting further and further out of reach.When I look southward, I see such vibrant cities in the US where developers are getting paid more, and the cost of living (and real estate ownership) are much lower.I fear that I am coming off sounding as entitled, as many of my non-techie friends are struggling to find jobs relevant to their studies, while I am in a situation where I am quickly paying off my student loans and trying to increase my savings. I'm still young, and perhaps I am just asking for too much. I would very much like to spend more time working on my own projects, and would like to one day do that full-time. However, I can't imagine that happening without a large safety net (not having to worry about a mortgage, or rent).I guess I haven't really asked a question yet ... I was just hoping to discuss this topic and hear your stories.

4 条评论

hwstar将近 10 年前

I'm older (54), live in San Diego, CA. San Diego is also high cost with a 440K median house price.I was employed as an electrical hardware engineer for a computer peripherals company until November 2014. The job market for electrical engineers in San Diego is currently in an awful state.While I was employed, I managed to buy a vacation home which I converted to a rental property after I became unemployed. I also was able to build a large nest egg of investments and cash. I am using these to live off of at the moment.I am Financially Independent to the point where I can pay for basic living costs, but not for fancy stuff like eating out or vacations.When I became unemployed, I updated my home engineering lab with a new test equipment by selling items on Ebay which I no longer needed. I currently spend a lot of my time developing open source hardware,firmware, and software and upload my projects to Github.If the job market in San Diego improves, I would consider going back to work, but it would have to be on my terms. I have enjoyed not having to commute to work every weekday. Any new job would have allow 80 to 100% telecommuting.Financial independence can be achieved, but it requires sacrifice and dedication. For details on how to do this I recommend visiting the Mr. Money Mustache blog: <a href="http://www.mrmoneymustache.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.mrmoneymustache.com</a> for ideas and support.

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jasonkester将近 10 年前

It doesn't sound like you're looking for financial independence. It sounds more like you're looking to buy all the same things that everybody else buys and otherwise act like all the other adults you see, but be able to do so now with your entry level salary.But that's what everybody wants. And it's why people end up living beyond their means.If you want actual financial independence, that's pretty easy to pull off. Even in a place with million dollar houses. Just convince yourself that you don't need a million dollar house. Or a nice car. Or your own place without roomates. All you really need is to pay that debt down to zero over the next year or so then find an equilibrium where you can live on about a quarter of your take home pay.Then you're done.At a developer salary (even a canadian developer salary), that will start you down a path of saving a lot of money in a hurry. Enough that were you to lose your job entirely five years down the road you could happily coast along another five years before really needing to worry about money.That's what you're shooting for. Notice that at no time do you do any of that coasting in a million dollar house. But if you keep at it, you'll eventually get to a place where you can buy that place in cash.

a3n将近 10 年前

Nothing wrong with wanting a detached home. Wanting one where it's too expensive, or getting one far away because it's affordable while continuing to work where it's expensive, probably requires a rethink.Right now you're building experience, knowledge and savings/investments, so you should probably focus on that. So live as cheap as practical where you are.At some point the curves will cross. If you still want a detached house, and you haven't become rich relative to where you work, then move to somewhere that you can work and live cheaply. Then buy your house.

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andkon将近 10 年前

I'm a startup founder living in Toronto, and thought I'd post in counterpoint. I live in a small apartment, and pay myself using any money I can cobble together from grants, contracting, investment, etc. I have no interest in buying a house, and I'm actually pretty sure that committing to that would be counterproductive if you're founding your own startup. If you think it's necessary to have a paid-off house before you start something, then you likely don't fit the risk profile of someone who would successfully be able to do so. No first time startup founder I know owns their own house, and most pay their own rent, and most have jumped off to do their own thing because they simply cannot wait any longer and hate working on anyone else's stuff.On the other hand, you're right about developer salaries being low here, comparatively. It's partly a function of the startups that exist here, and of Canadian cultural tendencies to just sit and simmer. If engineers are unlikely to jump ship, it's likely going to mean that salaries are lower than they could be.So if you just want to get paid more, interview at a bunch of places and get higher offers, then tell your boss. If you want to be a startup founder, then quit your job when you've got six months' runway saved up, incorporate your company in London, ON, and do your best to get NRC IRAP and OCE SmartStart, and expect the rest to work out.