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ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor

174 点作者 DavidChouinard将近 10 年前

25 条评论

cddotdotslash将近 10 年前
I admittedly don&#x27;t know a lot about this situation beyond what I&#x27;ve read in the news the past day or so. However, isn&#x27;t it the case that Zenefits is simply building an interface on top of ADP&#x27;s payroll data? And, from what I&#x27;ve read, it seems like they did this without following the proper procedures (did they write some kind of web scraper?). So if that is the case, ADP has every right to block them. If the situation was reversed and a large company was scraping a startup&#x27;s data to integrate into their own platform, the outrage would be directed quite differently. So Zenefits is plugging into ADP&#x27;s data, not paying them for access, not following the proper procedures to get access, and selling an interface on top of that data for a 10% fee, and then they complain that ADP blocked them?<p>EDIT: Also, all of their press releases sound very immature.
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ohitsdom将近 10 年前
This is getting ugly. Going against a ruthless goliath should help garner public support, but the way they are doing it is very unattractive to me. And as someone currently evaluating payroll solutions for small businesses, I&#x27;ll be steering clear of them.
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phantom_oracle将近 10 年前
Reading this story, the lawsuit story and in trying to keep up with this entire fiasco...<p>You end up feeling both sorry and a sour taste in your mouth for both companies. They&#x27;re both obviously very good at &quot;spin&quot; and drumming up PR to win support of their audience.<p>I previously thought things would get settled amicably, out of court, with Zenefits saying &quot;sorry&quot;, ADP saying &quot;its okay&quot; and the 2 companies settling on some decent structure to use ADPs API (or whatever thing they use for 3rd party access).<p>Now we are dealing with a situation where this is basically corporate-warfare hitting the &quot;lala-land&quot; of Silicon Valley.<p>Google, Apple, Microsoft and other tech companies generally have this corporate warfare amongst themselves and they also sometimes move in on other industries, catching those players off-guard.<p>With that in mind, and also the fact that Zenefits can no longer be classified as a startup - with +50 (or is it +100 employees) and a startup valuation of US$+4,5 billion - this is just another case of corporate warfare.<p>I shall now neither pity or care for either party of this story, because no matter how good the &quot;spin&quot; from each side is, this is just business as usual.<p>Any wall-street raider using HN may agree.<p>Edit: I&#x27;d also like to see how much longer this &quot;post&quot; stays as link number 1 on this platform, instead of getting &quot;washed away&quot; like yesterdays ADP link. Then we can also know for a fact that YC is actively pushing the agenda with their corporate interest in Zenefits (and proof that not all &quot;good links eventually surface to the top&quot;, without someone pulling some admin-user strings at the top)
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noir-york将近 10 年前
I believe that this is called a &#x27;free market&#x27;. Also, called &#x27;underestimating your competition&#x27;.<p>This common misconception that big companies are hide-bound dinosaurs is dangerous for any start up to hold. Most large companies are indeed oblivious, but some elephants - if you tweak them hard enough - turn around and stomp you.<p>Always respect your competition. Some of them may be smarter than you think.
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hoopism将近 10 年前
I had never heard of Zenefits but I&#x27;ve read the articles that have come across HN thus far. From the standpoint of a non-customer they come across as more consumed with proving a point than just proving they are better.<p>I think they ought to adjust their strategy.
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ghshephard将近 10 年前
How is what ADP doing (blocking access to their service from Zenefits so they can sell Opum), any different from what twitter does when it blocks services like meerkat from accessing their service when they want to build a business around periscope? I&#x27;m not saying that either organization (ADP or Twitter) is acting benevolently (obviously, they are both acting in a competitive manner) - I&#x27;m just trying to see if the two are acting in a similar manner.
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jilberish1990将近 10 年前
Couple of points:<p>1)Zenefits has always known this could happen or at least they should have. You have to play nice with ADP. Because if they don&#x27;t work with you, you are dead.<p>2)Zenefits has a super young CEO who doesn&#x27;t know what he is doing. Where is David Sacks in all of this? Isn&#x27;t he the adult supervision here? Maybe he hasn&#x27;t run anything at this scale before? Maybe he and his Yammer gang don&#x27;t know how benefits and healthcare work?<p>3)What were the VCs who invested at $4.5B thinking? Any technical due diligence would have brought this up. You had to clear this as a diligence item before you put a dollar into the company.<p>4)The lawsuit is a shakedown. Its time for ADP to collect its dues. Its nothing more than that. I expect ADP to extract a huge premium and then play nice with Zenefits in an out of court settlement. Everyone will have a face saving PR release after that. But isn&#x27;t it interesting that this happens after they pick-up their $500M round? I have heard rumors this was going to happen in September last year. ADP waited until now. What a pest.<p>4)Time for Parker to go and be replaced with someone who has run billion dollar software companies before. And that&#x27;s not Sacks.
CPLX将近 10 年前
Frankly, the simple fact that there is a headline on the Zenefits site that says &quot;ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor&quot; shows that they have seriously lost their focus.
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tomasien将近 10 年前
I can understand that many people probably don&#x27;t feel Zenefits is totally in the right in this dispute as a whole, but I struggle to see how you can dispute that ADP is being ridiculously two faced. I&#x27;m not sure how thinking ADP is better than Zenefits or that web scraping is bad or whatever people saying about Zenefits is relevant to the fact that ADP filed a lawsuit in federal court saying they&#x27;re NOT making a Zenefits competitor and then sent out emails to customers saying explicitly that they ARE making a Zenefits competitor. Whatever else you think about this situation, that is obviously pretty screwed up.
jtwebman将近 10 年前
I guess it really depends on what ADP&#x27;s terms of service say. It is their site and service. Clients can choose to stop using them. The Zenefits teams seems very immature, maybe they should pivot and start offering more full services.
olafskyansian将近 10 年前
I highly doubt this is a &quot;new&quot; product. They have offered payroll&#x2F;HR&#x2F;benefits for eons. What would be game changing is if it is free...
fourstar将近 10 年前
Who gives a fuck? In my opinion they are both competing for the same thing. Why even give either of the companies more publicity than they deserve?
wnevets将近 10 年前
zenefits post about ADP is making me dislike them and I&#x27;ve never used their product.
xacaxulu将近 10 年前
I&#x27;m gonna bet that ADP wins this one.
ams6110将近 10 年前
IANAL but I belive the stock advice when you are facing a lawsuit is to shut up about it. &quot;We don&#x27;t comment on matters under litigation&quot; is the standard line, and for good reason.
acconrad将近 10 年前
This is pretty bad on ADPs part. But after reading the other HN discussion on this topic[1], it seems like this is a company destined for as fast of a fall as it rose. I hate to see big companies muscle out little ones, but I guess if you&#x27;re going to rustle the feathers of so many, you&#x27;re bound to make some powerful enemies.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=9692635" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=9692635</a>
bhouston将近 10 年前
It is likely possible to identify the email address + name that are blacked out email because of its pixel dimension if that is a major concern:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;snag.gy&#x2F;DQEAX.jpg" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;snag.gy&#x2F;DQEAX.jpg</a><p>Just figure out the application and OS&#x2F;browser rendering the email and compare each possible email&#x2F;name combination with this.<p>It is like a one-way hash with a fairly small set of possibilities. May be a few hits though, rather than just one.
shaaaaawn将近 10 年前
It&#x27;s interesting, because if Zenefits had already IPO&#x27;d they absolutely would not be able to take this approach. Too much shareholder risk. And this is just as much a David Sacks thing as it is a Parker thing. I have to believe after my 10+ years in Financial Services that David Sacks already disliked ADP from his PayPal days. Zenefits is going to lose this battle, but it&#x27;s about the war.
gamblor956将近 10 年前
Blatant FUD from Zenefits. ADP&#x27;s new product is an online payroll&#x2F;HR SaaS that integrates across its entire product line.<p>Zenefit&#x27;s product is a glorified remote bookkeeping service in which you enter data into the Zenefits website and they re-enter it manually, and usually incorrectly, into the ADP website and scrape the results, usually incorrectly, so they can post a response several days later to your Zenefits account page.<p>One is a SaaS (ADP) and the other is a remote data-entry service (Zenefits). Completely different. It&#x27;s hard to argue that Zenefits should even be considered a tech company, since most of their &quot;integration&quot; functionality is driven by manual human labor and not technology. At best, Zenefits is a data-entry service with a nice, shiny UI.<p>EDIT: Also...the new product is actually just an offshoot of an existing product that my firm has been using for nearly a year. The new product, Opum, is simply the small-to-medium business version of one of ADP&#x27;s existing enterprise cloud payroll&#x2F;benefits products. It even uses the same (new) interface as the enterprise product.
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beat将近 10 年前
This strongly suggests that the shutoff AND the defamation lawsuit were part of a planned strategy - that they&#x27;re deliberately goading Zenefits&#x27; notoriously outspoken CEO.<p>Which does not bode well for their lawsuit, but I don&#x27;t think they&#x27;re out to win that anyway.
univalent将近 10 年前
Zenefits needs much much better Mar-Comm. This is getting embarrassing.
infinitone将近 10 年前
And the rabbit hole gets deeper... I&#x27;m guessing this Opum product is smoke and mirrors to capitalize on this whole fiasco.
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catshirt将近 10 年前
i hope ADP finishes this project soon i stop getting solicitations about it from a new recruiter every week
makeitsuckless将近 10 年前
I&#x27;m filing Zenefits in under the heading &quot;companies that confuse &#x27;disruptive&#x27; with &#x27;douchebag&#x27;&quot;.
paulhauggis将近 10 年前
&quot;We call on ADP to stop making life more difficult for small business customers and live up to its corporate value: “integrity is everything.”&quot;<p>See: Twitter, Facebook, and even Google. All of these companies have destroyed 3rd party companies by basically using them as a test base for new ideas and features and then directly competing (and many times, cutting off the 3rd party completely).<p>If you are going to base your entire company off of a 3rd party, you better have a plan B if they completely cut you off.
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