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Ask HN: How do you deal with social media pressure on your GitHub project?

155 点作者 proveanegative将近 10 年前
Lately a number of open source projects has faced tremendous pressure from people coming from Twitter and Reddit to have issues resolved a certain way. Even when you agree with the social media crowd it seems wrong to let it direct your project&#x27;s decisions though the sheer volume of its comments, especially so if many of the people commenting aren&#x27;t involved with the project even as users.<p>From what I have seen so far I can deduce that the technical side of the problem is essentially this:<p>* Limiting the issues to only the contributors excludes the actual users along with the strangers and encourages the more angry strangers to spam you with duplicate issues.<p>* Allowing everyone to comment drowns out thoughtful discussion with &quot;plus ones&quot; and &quot;thumbs up&quot; icons, as well as purposefully uncivil comments.<p>* GitHub&#x27;s moderation tools are too weak to moderate the individual comments.<p>When your project faces this pressure how do you act to ensure that meaningful discussion happens and decisions are made that are the best for your actual users and contributors in the long run?

20 条评论

mpdehaan2将近 10 年前
This was basically my life with building Ansible for three years. Given, I loved many aspects of it, but it was really hard and it took a major toll. (clarification: this has post has absolutely nothing to do why I am not working on it anymore)<p>I&#x27;ve been considering a bit of a blog post on this (particularly the unknown parts of wide scale OSS projects), but basically open source projects get harder as you have more contributors.<p>Time to review code properly (and to be overly friendly and helpful in doing so) often can completely eat into the ability for you to write and architect code properly, which strips out the ability to do the design that needs to be done. (and as you&#x27;re doing this - taking maybe 15 minutes per patch, the odds of someone fixing the submission are I would guess about 25% - and you might need to do a couple dozens of these a day).<p>People can get annoyed at filtering out of decisions unless you overcommunicate at a rate that is probably 5-10x times what is normally expected in normal business conversation. (I was already communicating at a rate that was probably 3-5x what most developers do on the lists, and generally got crucified for it, with myths building up about my character, etc).<p>Often decisions have no right answer, there&#x27;s a good and a bad, and either decision will irk someone, and you&#x27;ll get negative blog posts about what you are doing in either direction. You optimize for the thing that will help the most people, and the one guy who doesn&#x27;t have his obscure itch scratched will assume you are deliberately ignoring him. You eliminate a problem user so you can concentrate on 1000 people and doing real work, and then others jump all over you after the micro-incident (that they only saw part of).<p>GitHub makes some things harder -- the issue tracker doesn&#x27;t have issue templates, so you have to overcommunicate the need to fill out proper templates, and people also throw code at projects prior to asking what the code should be. I love GitHub for the OSS explosion it has enabled, but it is a chaotic way of managing a project as that project gets big.<p>It also makes it very obvious when a project is buried behind a lot of incomplete contributions, but similarly doesn&#x27;t provide good tools to sort and manage large numbers of incoming tickets. It makes it very obvious when those ticket numbers build up, and arguments happen on closed tickets.<p>Twitter is probably one of the worst things, as there&#x27;s a lot of passive aggressiveness on it. Twitter is an &quot;argument machine&quot;. It doesn&#x27;t provide context, but it does provide a place to rally a mob with pitchforks over the slightest percieved offense, that often should not have been an offense.<p>Often you don&#x27;t want people leaving trash on your lawn, but if you edit out the offensive things, the same people claim you are censoring them.<p>My advice is dont try to acquire users too fast. The &quot;Go&quot; project recently said something like &quot;we had to open source this once it was a certain way along&quot;. My conditioning from Red Hat was &quot;do everything in the open&quot;, but that was not really something Red Hat always did, as they had a lot of projects with low contribution numbers.<p>My ultimate feeling is that good projects have good central direction. Contributions can be good, and making a project around a base that encourages lots of shallow contributions can be a very successful strategy for making a successful project, if you do that, you end up doing a lot of custodial work and can&#x27;t always hit the goals you want to hit.<p>While it wasn&#x27;t true in the last 5 years, now I feel the code is more important than the contribution process, and focusing on that allows the users to get a better experience. Users matter a lot - and folks trying to contribute matter a lot - but I don&#x27;t like the way the inherant focus of contribution turns the creator of a thing into a project manager and a PR manager, and takes away their ability to innovate on the thing.<p>Being able to work on code is great, but I&#x27;d still want to see contribution structured around a mailing list. Strongly encourage talking about code&#x2F;ideas before submission, but most people will not read it and will submit directly anyway.<p>I think part of my problem was the barrier to contribution was really low (and that was great) because it was pretty modular at the smaller ends, and we quickly got overwhelmed. I like to thrash very complex codebases for not being contributor friendly, but the breathing room would have been nice.<p>I guess there&#x27;s no clear answer - holding things longer before open sourcing them might help. Making sure you have very high coding standards helps. But eventually you&#x27;re just going to have that very large number of people.<p>Most of everyone (95%) are awesome, it&#x27;s just that the virtue of something being so open exposes you to everyone that might not be - and even those people are probably awesome, the nature of low-bandwidth communication on the internet probably just exposes you to misunderstandings and you end up stressing out over things vs being the friends you normally would.<p>Ignore what you can - it&#x27;s a problem when others don&#x27;t understand this and bug you about every single comment and interaction, and judge you on it. The ratio of complaints to thank you&#x27;s is not always worth the pay at times, so just make sure you&#x27;re doing it because you care about it, and find the best way to make it work for you, even if that&#x27;s moving something to redmine and bitbucket :)
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gumby将近 10 年前
You (or they, depending on how you consider things) have a simple tool to solve the problem: let them fork and do what they want.<p>It sounds like I&#x27;m trivializing the issue but I&quot;m not (see below). Take a kindly approach: &quot;Clearly I have a disagreement as to the right way to proceed so let&#x27;s stop arguing and both go down our respective paths.&quot; Don&#x27;t worry about the obnoxious folks: be kind and take them at their word. If they pick up the ball, perhaps they will be proven right and you&#x27;ll switch, perhaps they&#x27;ll be proven wrong and that experiment won&#x27;t have hurt your project, or perhaps they&#x27;ll be proven trolls (by not picking up the ball), in which case you can saefly ignore them.<p>And when I say this is a simple tool: it took me months to arrange the first &quot;legitimate&quot; (in the sense that it was accepted as a mainstream activiy) open source fork, which was GCC back in 1997. Until then forking a project while done (often companies would hack something unsupportable into, say, gdb), was considered grossly dangerous. It took literally months of discussion to split egcs off from mainline gcc (and to become, in fact, mainline gcc). I had to write a really long, careful message (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gcc.gnu.org&#x2F;news&#x2F;announcement.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gcc.gnu.org&#x2F;news&#x2F;announcement.html</a>) to justify it. Nowadays you can fork away with abandon. Take advantage of it.
aikah将近 10 年前
&gt; Lately a number of open source projects has faced tremendous pressure from people coming from Twitter and Reddit to have issues resolved a certain way.<p>Can you point to a specific example? the only things I have seen is some brigading and cabal to pressure a project owner to remove a contributor from a project, but it was akin to a lynch mob, not related with programming in any way.
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waxjar将近 10 年前
I think GitHub needs a &quot;+1&quot; button for issues. It&#x27;ll give maintainers some insight as to what priority to give an issue, without spamming them with e-mails. Asking users not to comment with comments such as &quot;+1&quot;, or even turning off comments, hides this information.<p>This will solve the issue partly.
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cjbprime将近 10 年前
You can temporarily close comments on an issue that&#x27;s getting a lot of outside traffic. Usually social media traffic is very bursty like that.
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bkor将近 10 年前
Delete&#x2F;hide the comments and a public announcement on the bug what types of comments are acceptable&#x2F;unacceptable.<p>As someone else said, it is usually very obvious. Many comments within 24 hours on a bug that is usually bike shed worthy.<p>Bugs comments should be technical in nature. Basically no (endless) discussion _if_ something should (not) be done. It should be about _how_ to do something (implement&#x2F;fix bug&#x2F;etc).<p>The deleting (hiding for anyone but admins) is usually pretty effective. Once they understand that you have way too much time on your hands, then they&#x27;ll stop pretty quickly.<p>What&#x27;s important is not to get aggressive though. Try turning the attention into something positive and give some tips (how things work and how to get something done). E.g. sometimes bugs do get forgotten and some attention will get them fixed. But that doesn&#x27;t need 10-15 comments after eachother.<p>My experience is with Bugzilla btw.
click170将近 10 年前
Maybe what Github needs is a way to put an issue or all issues for a project into Review Mode where every comment posted to the issue by a non-contributor must be reviewed and accepted by project members before it is posted. This would allow non-contributors to post comments of value (as decided by the contributors), and would make it harder for trolls to spam the discussion.<p>This would place additional overhead on the project maintainers, but IMO this is more ideal because emails from trolls and people not contributing to the conversation can easily be ignored by filtering out messages from that Github user.<p>It would not be perfect but it might be better than what we currently have?
jakejake将近 10 年前
Developing a thick skin and not feeling like every request is a life-or-death situation - this is what you need to have. You have to take the input and make adjustments as necessary, but continue to steer the project toward your vision. You also should decide how much time you will devote to the project and then not go over to avoid burnout or interfering with your life&#x2F;work.<p>My most popular product at the moment has maybe 150k installs and I could spend the rest of my life trying to appease every request. I can only imagine a massively successful software project must be a deluge of requests.
ExpiredLink将近 10 年前
If it&#x27;s a hobbyist project you can ignore the &quot;social media pressure&quot;. If you have commercial interests it&#x27;s probably better to set up your own issue&#x2F;feature&#x2F;bug-tracking system independent of GitHub.
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em3rgent0rdr将近 10 年前
Too bad GitHub can&#x27;t weight comments&#x2F;issues by quality of contributor&#x2F;user instead of only providing a binary choice of &quot;only the contributors&quot; vs &quot;allowing everyone&quot;.
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sytse将近 10 年前
At GitLab we&#x27;re considering a feature that will reduce the noise of +1&#x27;s and other emoji&#x27;s, we&#x27;re been planning it for a while but you could compare it to Slack&#x27;s function: leaving an emoji doesn&#x27;t generate a comment.
jerrac将近 10 年前
Depending on the issues effected, I&#x27;d shut off comments&#x2F;issues until the social media storm is over.<p>If it&#x27;s a longer term issue, then throw up a Discourse&#x2F;forum instance somewhere and close any effected issues with a comment along the lines of &quot;go talk about it here, where you won&#x27;t negatively effect development work.&quot;<p>You could also just turn off GitHub issues and move to a different system. Maybe make all new issues go into a forum&#x2F;google group, and then when a valid issue comes along, allow a contributor to create a issue on GitHub.<p>Off topic: I think there&#x27;s a huge opportunity for someone to shake up how support requests&#x2F;bug reports&#x2F;issues&#x2F;tickets&#x2F;etc. work. Part of that would be building tools that help developers manage support requests while still being newbie friendly. As well as issues like social media pressure. If anyone&#x27;s working on something like that, I&#x27;d love to give feedback. I&#x27;ve had ideas on the subject, but haven&#x27;t had the time to pursue it myself.
datashovel将近 10 年前
I have always felt that the &quot;uncivil&quot; parts are typically coming from people who have to depend on others to accomplish what they want. There has to be a certain amount of anxiety that comes from being asked to do something that you may not know how to do yourself. e.g. Someone who is not a developer themselves.<p>On the other hand, if you notice alot of developers complaining, my first thought would be that the code may not be modular enough that the developer feels they can comfortably make changes themselves without knowing what it will do to the overall code base.<p>Wherever there is reasonable dissent, it seems it would be a perfect opportunity to reorganize that part of the code so that many different opinions can be happy about the end result.
xmj将近 10 年前
&gt; When your project faces this pressure how do you act to ensure that meaningful discussion happens and decisions are made that are the best for your actual users and contributors in the long run?<p>Make sure you know who your users are.<p>Keep in touch with them, reach out, do &quot;community building&quot;. They will tell you things about your product&#x2F;software&#x2F;system you would otherwise never hear.<p>That way, you can also filter out issues from known troublestarters as noise, and, much like in Casablanca, it&#x27;s a &quot;round up the usual suspects&quot; thing.<p>You could probably write a bot to filter them out, very similar to the ggautoblocker whose perl sources *are on GitHub, just, the other way &#x27;round.
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buserror将近 10 年前
&quot;you got the source, feel free to send a merge request, thanks!&quot;<p>Problem sorted?
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gsudarkoff将近 10 年前
Managing scale is managing scale. There are numerous business books written on this subject. In a nutshell: build a scalable org structure (delegate, get yourself out of the loop when possible), explicitly define policies and processes, establish quality controls and do NOT compromise on quality, invest in communication and training...
tomasien将近 10 年前
I saw this as a possible helpful tool. They actually sent some un-solicited emails to folks running large projects (which they definitely should not have done but seem to feel bad about) so it got a lot of bad will off the bat, but it seems helpful.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;githelp.io&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;githelp.io&#x2F;</a>
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mahouse将近 10 年前
Ignore it.
logicrime将近 10 年前
This sure smells fishy...<p>If you&#x27;re running an open source project and users are pouring into the cracks to say that they don&#x27;t like something, it&#x27;s an obvious sign of what they want. Open-source is supposed to be about the community, maybe you should try listening harder to them.<p>Users aren&#x27;t just sheep that use your product, they&#x27;re an integral part of the entire process, equal in value to the developers.<p>edit: Who woulda thought that HN devs didn&#x27;t give a shit about users? As if we didn&#x27;t know that already...
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evan_将近 10 年前
Maybe this is crazy but you could listen to them, treat their comments as valid, give a clear indication that you understand what they are saying, and then seriously consider their concerns?<p>Too often I see people shut down and go into a kind of &quot;you can&#x27;t tell me what to do&quot; coma and lash out. That doesn&#x27;t solve anything.
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