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Beware the IP non-assert clause in AWS cloud service agreement

129 点作者 kalu将近 10 年前

13 条评论

wtbob将近 10 年前
I&#x27;m not a lawyer, but my take on the clause is simple: one can&#x27;t sue Amazon for IP related <i>to the service AWS is providing</i>. E.g., I couldn&#x27;t use S3, but then try to hit Amazon with a file-like key-value-store patent. I think I&#x27;d still be free to hit Amazon with a web-based online-shopping patent though, since I&#x27;m not buying <i>that</i> service from them.<p>Edit: argh, I wish HN would accept underscores for italics.
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ritchiem将近 10 年前
Seems the court decided Appistry Inc&#x27;s patent was invalid. So we&#x27;ll have to wait for another test case to see how enforceable this is. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.justia.com&#x2F;cases&#x2F;federal&#x2F;district-courts&#x2F;washington&#x2F;wawdce&#x2F;2:2015cv00311&#x2F;211327&#x2F;213" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.justia.com&#x2F;cases&#x2F;federal&#x2F;district-courts&#x2F;washin...</a>
devnonymous将近 10 年前
While the warning appears to be well intentioned and the paranoia understandable to me, I didn&#x27;t quite understand this bit:<p><pre><code> &gt; Lastly, it’s well known that AWS utilises and hosts a wide range of open &gt; source code which could include viral OSS licences that might further &gt; extend the reach of the IP non-assert in unforeseen and unpredictable ways. </code></pre> Could someone who understood explain this ? Is that last bit just FUD ? If it is, then is the entire article FUD ?
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leereeves将近 10 年前
&quot;you will not assert...against us or any of our...<i>customers</i>&quot;<p>Is that Amazon customers or just AWS customers? Either way, that&#x27;s a lot of people.
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josephagoss将近 10 年前
<p><pre><code> &gt; It’s likely that thousands of Amazon customers don’t &gt; realise they are giving away their valuable intellectual &gt; property rights just for the privilege of using AWS; but &gt; realise they should. </code></pre> Does this mean that AWS is allowed to use the IP of any customer hosting their system on AWS?<p>I&#x27;ve built an application on AWS but would not have if this meant handing over all my IP to Amazon.<p>I must be misunderstanding the issue as I doubt any company or person would use AWS if it meant giving up their entire IP.<p>Can someone please explain what I am missing here?
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vacri将近 10 年前
So, a bit more information here: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.geekwire.com&#x2F;2015&#x2F;amazon-fights-patent-suit-using-little-noticed-clause-in-standard-aws-customer-agreement&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.geekwire.com&#x2F;2015&#x2F;amazon-fights-patent-suit-using...</a><p>An interesting point is that Appistry continued to use AWS services after learning about the clause. This led the Missouri judge to allow transfer of the case to Seattle (AWS hometown), basically doing a &quot;you can&#x27;t have your cake and eat it, too&quot;.
bryanrasmussen将近 10 年前
&quot;First is the duration – the provision seems to apply even after a customer stops using AWS. &quot; from what I remember in U.S contract law a permanent contracts are frowned on if they don&#x27;t give some sort of way of terminating the contract?
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thoman23将近 10 年前
<p><pre><code> &gt; I can safely say that I have never seen such a broad IP non-assert provision in a standard form contract. </code></pre> What about Facebook&#x27;s React license?<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;facebook&#x2F;react&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;PATENTS" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;facebook&#x2F;react&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;PATENTS</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=8985541" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=8985541</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=9111849" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=9111849</a>
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Lawtonfogle将近 10 年前
The simple fix is to make the right to patent infringement assertions one that you cannot sign away so that any contract that includes it is void (at least for that section). Which makes me think it won&#x27;t ever happen.
sirwitti将近 10 年前
I don&#x27;t know about the US, but in Europe it&#x27;s quite possible that these clauses would be ruled invalid.
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nickpsecurity将近 10 年前
Why do they call it the cloud? Because your exclusive I.P. just up and floats away one day.<p>Stay out of the cloud. Invest in cost-efficient IT. Avoid so many issues. I predicted this specific one years back. I&#x27;m surprised I haven&#x27;t heard more of it among cloud vendors.
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mcherm将近 10 年前
Wow... that&#x27;s interesting.<p>I&#x27;ll summarize my take. First of all, take the article with a grain of salt. Possible issues brought up by Bart Eppenauer are being raised by the former chief counsel of Microsoft, a direct competitor to AWS (Azure). And the linked article has a somewhat alarmist phrasing.<p>That being said, there appears to be something real here. This contract is one that applies to thousands of businesses -- cloud computing is taking both small business and big business by storm, and AWS has the majority of the business in this area. The clause itself reads like this (retrieved today from <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;aws.amazon.com&#x2F;agreement&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;aws.amazon.com&#x2F;agreement&#x2F;</a> ):<p><pre><code> During and after the Term, you will not assert, nor will you authorize, assist, or encourage any third party to assert, against us or any of our affiliates, customers, vendors, business partners, or licensors, any patent infringement or other intellectual property infringement claim regarding any Service Offerings you have used. </code></pre> Now, I am not a lawyer, so my interpretation could be wrong; even if I WERE a lawyer I would be saying that nothing was certain at least until a court had ruled on a case that depended on this clause. But it appears that this clause is very broad in time (from now onwards), in scope (covers patents as well as &quot;all IP&quot;) and in targets (against Amazon OR most anyone else like their customers or business partners). The clause is restricted ONLY by the statement that it applies to a claim about &quot;Service Offerings you have used&quot;.<p>Now, my impression would be that this means you can&#x27;t sue Amazon (or their partners&#x2F;customers&#x2F;etc) over IP violations <i>BY THE AWS PRODUCT ITSELF</i>. In other word, if you use AWS you can&#x27;t then later sue Amazon or their customers saying that AWS itself violates your patent on using a computer remotely (or whatever ridiculous patent you may hold). With this interpretation it is an extremely reasonable provision and should not concern any company involved in normal business.<p>Furthermore, the one case where Amazon has asserted this clause (against Appistry)[1] fit this model. Appistry sued Amazon saying that Amazon violated its patent; Amazon countered that Appistry was using AWS and with this clause had agreed not to sue. That case is still underway.<p>So my evaluation is that this is <i>probably</i> an OK clause. But it certainly skirts the line and you ought to have your lawyer look it over. After that, you will probably ignore what your lawyer says and sign it anyway because Amazon is the giant of cloud computing and you don&#x27;t have a whole lot of choice.<p>[1] - <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.geekwire.com&#x2F;2015&#x2F;amazon-fights-patent-suit-using-little-noticed-clause-in-standard-aws-customer-agreement&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.geekwire.com&#x2F;2015&#x2F;amazon-fights-patent-suit-using...</a>
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tempodox将近 10 年前
What on earth does it even mean?