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Why I am pro-GPL

286 点作者 paroneayea将近 10 年前

23 条评论

TazeTSchnitzel将近 10 年前
It&#x27;s worth remembering why the GPL was invented.<p>Stallman had a printer which had proprietary drivers, and he wanted to fix an issue with the driver. He couldn&#x27;t. He created the GPL so that, in future, people wouldn&#x27;t have this problem.<p>Stallman created the GPL because he cared about user freedom.
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bcg1将近 10 年前
Christopher Allen Webber is a FLOSS hero and in my opinion deserves the utmost respect, although I suspect he is probably too humble to agree with that.<p>I concur with everything he has written in his post... but one thing I&#x27;d add to the points he made is my annoyance with the implication made by many that proponents of permissive licensing care about freedom more than people who use copyleft licenses.<p>People who really care about freedom care about it for EVERYONE, and licensing that maximizes freedom for everyone trumps the &quot;strings attached&quot; in that regard, that is such a simple thing to see that it challenges credulity to think that someone who cares about freedom could say otherwise.<p>If you want everyone to use permissive licensing because you want to use free software inside of locked down programs you produce and are frustrated that great copyleft software doesn&#x27;t let you do that, fine. I can respect that position because I&#x27;ve experienced the same problem. But please get over it and find some non-free solution to your problem, instead of trying to undermine the ideology of people who actually care about freedom just because you are jealous of the quality of software that has that ideology attached to it.
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tdees40将近 10 年前
I work in industry. Anything GPL is a non-starter. I totally understand and appreciate the concerns, but at BigCorp GPL doesn&#x27;t play.<p>edit: I&#x27;m well aware that some people don&#x27;t want industry using their code. Great! But that&#x27;s really limiting the scope of who&#x27;s going to get involved, and it&#x27;s probably going to make it harder to get a sufficient community involved to help your project achieve liftoff.
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beering将近 10 年前
A few years from now, when you want to hack on some new gizmo and you find out that the toolchain is a pile of proprietary blobs that only work on Windows and an old version of RHEL, you can thank the &quot;pro-user&quot; supporters of clang and its non-copyleft license.<p>(I think this is already happening with GPU toolchains but that&#x27;s not my field.)
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smhenderson将近 10 年前
<i>There is no reason to pit permissive and copyleft licensing against each other. Anyone doing so is doing a great disservice to user freedom.</i><p>Or, IMHO more likely, has an agenda that benefits from permissive licensing.
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jbandela1将近 10 年前
I think the GPL license actually makes user freedom worse by encouraging developers to release software as web apps instead of as client applications. This is because a web application that uses GPL software is not required to release its source code whereas a client application would be required to release its source code.<p>The difference in user freedom between web apps and client apps is much bigger than the difference between a GPL client app and a proprietary client app. With a client app, even a proprietary one - the user at least in theory can see exactly what the application is doing and what data it is transmitting where.<p>So for the average user - GPL has encouraged loss of user freedom. Of course this doesn&#x27;t affect Stallman because he does not use any web apps.
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yellowapple将近 10 年前
I think this article (and possibly the speaker the article responds to; I haven&#x27;t seen any transcript or recording yet) misses one of the bigger poitns of permissive licensing: the ability for virtually <i>any</i> free software project to reuse your code. As a developer writing a library or somesuch, my concern is often whether or not I&#x27;m locking a large number of projects out of making use of my code. Yeah, this means that proprietary software can use it, too, but at least I&#x27;m credited for the work (as per the terms of most copyfree&#x2F;copycenter licenses) and other FOSS projects have the same ability.<p>This isn&#x27;t to say that copyleft is automatically bad, but rather that consideration for the general development ecosystem is a worthwhile consideration. If you&#x27;re a Perl hacker, for example, you&#x27;re probably going to use &quot;the same license as perl itself&quot; (GPL + Artistic License) or perhaps the Artistic License 2.0 because those are the norms of the Perl community. If you&#x27;re a Ruby hacker, you&#x27;re probably going to use the MIT license because that&#x27;s the most common. If you&#x27;re writing an Emacs package, you&#x27;ll probably release it under the GPL. If you&#x27;re writing an Erlang module, I&#x27;d reckon the Apache license nowadays to be the new baseline.<p>This is also affected by which operating system you&#x27;re targeting. BSD folks will tend to lean permissive, while GNU&#x2F;Linux folks will tend to lean copyleft. Windows and OS X folks will tend to lean proprietary or permissive.<p>In other words, what license to pick really depends on the norms of the platform you&#x27;re writing for. There&#x27;s no &quot;wrong&quot; answer here unless the license you choose excessively impedes reusability by the broader community you&#x27;re operating in, in which case you would be wise to adapt accordingly.
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smhenderson将近 10 年前
I feel like a lot of the comments in this thread are conflating permissively licensed software with closed source software.<p>If you want to write software and keep it closed so you can make money off it I don&#x27;t necessarily love the idea but I can respect it.<p>But we&#x27;re not talking about closed source here, just the difference between the GPL and permissive licenses like BSD, MIT, etc. I don&#x27;t see how creating a killer app and releasing it permissively guarantees a developer an income. The opposite is the obvious effect. On the other hand using the GPL as your public license and negotiating a private license with a company like QT does seems like a logical way to provide user freedom, enjoy feedback and improvements from the community and still allow for a revenue stream.<p>It&#x27;s definitely a tired argument at this point so I was actually pretty happy when the author went out of his way to reiterate at the end of the article that there are benefits to both approaches, why can&#x27;t we all just get along...
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amirouche将近 10 年前
BSD was not meant to shape a future, it was created to maximize the reach of its software through devaluation.<p>GPL was created to shape our future and continue to do so. Not just the forseable reach of our little lifes and immediate surroundings (if any).<p>I see a lot of people looking at their immediate needs. IMO We need need to give time to Time. The problem is not FLOSS licensing or software. This is mostly a solved problem.
awinder将近 10 年前
<p><pre><code> &gt; To return to the arguments made last night, though copyleft &gt; defends source, in my view this is merely a strategy towards &gt; defending users. And indeed, as in terms of where freedoms &gt; lie between those who make use of the source and code side of &gt; things vs the end-user-application side of things, one might &gt; notice a trend: there are very few permissively licensed projects &gt; which aim at end users. Most of them are stepping stones towards &gt; further software development. And this is great! I am glad that &gt; we have so many development tools available, and it seems that &gt; permissive&#x2F;lax licensing is an excellent strategy here. But when &gt; I think of projects I use every day which are programs I actually run &gt; (for example, as an artist I use Blender, Gimp and Inkscape &gt; regularly), most of these are under the GPL. How many truly major &gt; end-user-facing software applications can you think of that &gt; are under permissive licenses? I can think of many under copyleft, &gt; and very few under permissive licenses. This is no coincidence. &gt; Assuming you wish to fight for freedom of the end user, and ensure &gt; that your software remains free for that end user, copyleft &gt; is an excellent strategy. </code></pre> This was the key paragraph from my reading anyways. This is not an argument for &#x2F; against whichever license, it&#x27;s an argument that different types of code and projects have different licensing trends, and those probably align with how the code is going to be used and the audience that it&#x27;s targeting.
asgard1024将近 10 年前
I sympathize with the author, even though I work at a corporation that doesn&#x27;t like GPL.<p>I think big part why the GPL has been lately out of fashion is that many developers work for (big) companies, which of course (as correctly stated) benefit lot more from BSD than GPL.<p>These developers naturally want to use the great software at work they do or use as a hobby, so they are willing to compromise with the powers at be (business leadership) and release their software under a more permissive license (or pressure their peers working on OSS to release it under more permissive license).<p>Of course, if these developers acted really rationally, they would collectively rise up against such demands; but then they could just establish some sort of anarchist&#x2F;libertarian&#x2F;communist (depending on your leanings) commune where everything is fair and just.<p>So I think it&#x27;s a lot of small pragmatic decisions that ultimately lead to irrational results.
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llllllllllllll将近 10 年前
I think this quote from the article is what is all qbout. &quot;In Shane&#x27;s talk last night, he argued against copyleft because software licenses should have &quot;no strings attached&quot;. But the very strategy that is advocated above is all about attaching strings! Copyleft&#x27;s strings say &quot;you can use my stuff, as long as you give back what you make from it&quot;. But the proprietary differentiation strategy&#x27;s strings say &quot;I will use your stuff, and then add terms which forbid you to ever share or modify the things I build on top of it.&quot; Don&#x27;t be fooled: both attach strings. But which strings are worse?&quot;
dzsekijo将近 10 年前
What bothers me both about the article and the comments here that they speak in the context of the pro-GPL&#x2F;anti-GPL debate, but what actually gets discussed is lax vs. copyleft FOSS licensing.<p>However, the two topics are not the same. I, for one, like the idea of copyleft licensing (for cases where its appropriate), but don&#x27;t like GPL. GPL has taken the status of &quot;the real copyleft license&quot;, but indeed it&#x27;s an abuse of the idea of copyleft.<p>Here&#x27;s why: create the Merry Mermaid Public License (MMPL) as follows: take the text of the GPL and replace all occurrences of &quot;GNU General Public License&quot; with &quot;Merry Mermaid Public License&quot;. Also remove all references to FSF and refer to yourself &#x2F; another non-profit whenever a legal entity is to be named in the text. MMPL will be essentially the same as GPL, just called differently. However, GPL will condemn MMPL in the sense that the two won&#x27;t be compatible. You can&#x27;t mix and distribute code bits where one is GPL and one is MMPL licensed. An aggressive monopolist drive is built in to GPL as it decrees incompatiblity with other licenses not on base of licensing conditions, but on base of not being originated from the FSF.
ggreer将近 10 年前
The author gives good reasons for preferring the GPL to BSD-style licenses, but it seems to me that there&#x27;s an even better license for his ideals: the AGPL.[1] It fulfills the same purpose as the GPL, but it fixes loopholes such as running code on remote servers (most website back-ends).<p>I&#x27;ve yet to hear a good argument from ideals that prefers the GPL to AGPL. The latter really does give people more freedom over how they can use and modify software.<p>1. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Affero_General_Public_License" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Affero_General_Public_License</a>
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err4nt将近 10 年前
I&#x27;m very grateful the GPL exists, but I don&#x27;t like the viral clause of the GPL. I find people sometimes aren&#x27;t able to use GPLed code in their projects which defeats my purpose for putting it under an open licence in the first place.<p>Lately I just release stuff under MIT which says you&#x27;re free to do anything but remove the copyright notice, or sue me because you used my code. Other than that it&#x27;s free for nearly any purpose.
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lucozade将近 10 年前
I&#x27;m torn. I understand the benefits of enforcing user freedom. But it&#x27;s not clear to me that users aren&#x27;t better served by the ubiquity of re-use that the more permissive licenses have encouraged.<p>For example, permissive licenses have helped with the walled garden that is iOS. But would end users be better off if we hadn&#x27;t had iOS? If it were GPL&#x27;d, sure, but in reality it would never have been. So is its existence, and the competition it fostered with Android, net beneficial to users?<p>Maybe more concretely, I feel that the deliberate hamstringing of GCC wrt a published IR to be, well, wrong. Again, I understand the arguments and I appreciate the reasoning but it&#x27;s not clear that the end user is best served by this.<p>For me, at least, it probably comes down to the simple statement that, as much as I value end user freedom, it isn&#x27;t always the most beneficial thing for the end user.<p>On a different day, mind, I&#x27;d probably argue the other way...
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0xdeadbeefbabe将近 10 年前
If you want freedom don&#x27;t involve any lawyers. &#x27;s why the Trex ate the lawyer first: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=VMzfrod7hcE" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=VMzfrod7hcE</a>
nickpsecurity将近 10 年前
The first half of the article was good and balanced. I especially like the distinction in lay terms: copyleft to push freedom; non-copyleft to push adoption. That&#x27;s a great way to describe it to a person contemplating what license to choose. Then, the article goes in a different direction that embodies negative qualities that author critiqued in the related presentation. Let&#x27;s address a bit of this from my pro-consumer, pro-security&#x2F;quality, pro-OSS, anti-copyleft perspective. Mentioned that just so my bias is clear upfront and why I push adoption-oriented licenses (esp for open hardware &amp; high assurance).<p>re stepping stone. Yes, this is the common goal of proprietary use of anti-copyleft software. IIRC, copyleft software got its start using the architecture, languages, tools, and platforms of BSD and proprietary offerings. So, even GPL proponents build on existing work. Anyone wanting an open, free version of a given enhancement can similarly produce it starting with the same stepping stones.<p>re open to closed. We saw this happen with Apple App Store, the QNX source reversal, attempts to combine open code with DRM, and so on. This is bad. However, it almost exclusively happens with companies whose licensing, TOS&#x27;s, SLA&#x27;s, etc allow for this sort of thing. That&#x27;s where the problem is. Avoiding such companies, selecting safest licenses, and&#x2F;or ensuring certain conditions are perpetual in contracts&#x2F;licenses are easiest solution. GPL is actually a successful implementation of my claim, although it wasn&#x27;t good enough. Affero corrected a major deficiency and more evolutions will probably follow. Many more licensing schemes can happen to reduce negative impact of business participation while empowering users.<p>The common theme in most gripes is what the companies do. The reason we have this problem is that users almost exclusively do business with scumbag companies. They don&#x27;t care about terms. They don&#x27;t care about its ethics. Prior abuses rarely make them change companies (see Microsoft and Facebook). They don&#x27;t try to leverage their buying power to force (existing) or incentivize (startups) companies to negotiate something that&#x27;s favorable to them and future-proof in main risk areas. Like the old saying, the only thing that was necessary for triumph of evil was that good people did nothing [while evil kept its eye on the ball and its hands&#x2F;feet in a sprint].<p>A lot of these problems can be avoided by simply investing in the right organizations. People who pick up Microsoft&#x27;s server operating system are in for more schemes than those that used FreeBSD with commercial support. Certain small companies behind IDE&#x27;s and libraries have had <i>great</i> terms for their users for years with minimal hassles unlike the mess that&#x27;s Microsoft&#x27;s development tools. Services provided by non-profits, cooperatives, and companies simply focused on customer satisfaction have done great compared to race to bottom in cost or highest shareholder earnings that get many others scheming on customers. Pick the right people&#x2F;companies&#x2F;tools, maintain an out to avoid lock-in (open formats&#x2F;API&#x27;s help), and invest in that. Double down on it if they use permissive licenses and re-invest back into their communities.<p>In the end, this is more a problem of incentives than purely a legal one. People trust companies that don&#x27;t care about them. They get screwed. Stop doing that. Do plenty more of the opposite. On top of it, explore alternatives [1] to popular source-sharing models in case business opportunities arise. Get momentum going in directions other than companies that do lock-in and lock-down. After all, I&#x27;ve done a lot of business with proprietary companies and have mostly avoided being boxed in. Same goes for FOSS use. Imagine that... All about what you use, how, and from whom. Sacrifices will need to be made, though, and now we&#x27;re getting back to user demand (incentives) driving the negative practices.<p>Outside a niche, I don&#x27;t see it happening because market as a whole won&#x27;t take responsibility to make it happen. The problems are market&#x27;s fault, as usual. Good that niche commercial, OSS, and FOSS have given us plenty of good stuff to work with. I encourage all of them to keep at it without a need to fight with any. I avoid GPL strictly for economic reasons: certain investments don&#x27;t happen, esp high assurance or ASIC development, unless they can recover the cost somehow. Additionally, companies adopting high quality components makes stuff more robust over time. Finally, making money allows them to fight inevitable patent suits that will attempt to put them out of business and create more patents for defensive use. So, for economic reasons, I oppose the GPL in some spaces while respecting it and being neutral in others. My OS is GPL, for instance, and I&#x27;m grateful to its developers &amp; community. :)<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.schneier.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;archives&#x2F;2014&#x2F;05&#x2F;friday_squid_bl_424.html#c6051639" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.schneier.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;archives&#x2F;2014&#x2F;05&#x2F;friday_squid_...</a>
hasenj将近 10 年前
I think the GPL is a little outdated in that it misses the point on what really matters to ensuring the user&#x27;s freedom.<p>I think having an open source application is useless to the end user. I mean really useless in and of itself.<p>What really matters is standarizing the data format and providing tools to convert&#x2F;export to various other formats.<p>Say I&#x27;m using application X as a free-software word processor. Two years later I decide I&#x27;m done with it, for various reasons it&#x27;s annoying. I want to migrate to some other application Y.<p>Also suppose that X hasn&#x27;t been in development for over a year and no one is maintaining it.<p>Also suppose X is very complicated and no one understands how the code works.<p>What do I get as a user? What benefit do I get from X being open-source? Almost nothing.<p>On the other hand, if X came with tools to &quot;liberate&quot; data from itself, and had its data format extensively documented, <i>then</i> I could get some real benefits.<p>The only thing open source does is allow developers to collectively work on infrastructure tools. Such as git, etc.
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anon3_将近 10 年前
&gt; there are very few permissively licensed projects which aim at end users.<p>Lack of citation and data noted. I&#x27;m assuming good faith and going to approach this as I would a fellow colleague :)<p>I&#x27;m also going to assume you perhaps haven&#x27;t been introduced to the vibrant ecosystem of permissive licensed software.<p>The article also doesn&#x27;t mention how GPL is a show-stopper at some companies where we are building proprietary solutions.<p>Oracle, IBM, Sony, Apple, Microsoft, Boeing all are monetized empires that profit not just from binary blobs, but from providing a superior product. Also, being the patent holder is lucrative.<p>How do you intend on running a business and feeding your employees, let alone making investors happy following the virtues of GPL? Consulting and support only goes so far.<p>&gt; Most of them are stepping stones towards further software development.<p>Ever hear of DragonEgg? (GCC was used to bootstrap LLVM&#x2F;clang in it&#x27;s early days.)<p>Devs use GPL software to write permissive software. Sometimes they do so because they have no choice but to reinvent the wheel because of GPL&#x27;s rules.
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arunc将近 10 年前
Free as in &quot;Freedom&quot;.
zobzu将近 10 年前
My name is zobzu. I fight for the users, and I&#x27;m standing up for the GPL. (seriously tho, same license by default, same reasons - feel free to downvote, it won&#x27;t change my licensing choices)
gress将近 10 年前
This makes the usual false dichotomy between &#x27;users&#x27; and &#x27;developers&#x27; and positions GPL advocates as freedom fighters.<p>Also as usual, there is no mention of how a GPL based economy can work. The reason the GPL is not loved by developers as much as the freedom fighters would like is because we need to earn a living. If GPL advocates can address that, they would be able to stop wasting time with these rants.
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