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Mining Product Hunt, Part 1: Detecting Vote-Rings

130 点作者 ANaimi将近 10 年前

10 条评论

minimaxir将近 10 年前
The issue with Product Hunt is that <i>they don&#x27;t care</i> about voting rings. Just look at Twitter for &quot;product hunt upvote&quot;: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;search?q=product%20hunt%20upvote&amp;src=typd" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;search?q=product%20hunt%20upvote&amp;src=typ...</a><p>I&#x27;ve criticized PH for allowing voting rings and being a &quot;black box&quot; in general with respect to voting (see interview in Recode which had a comment from me: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;recode.net&#x2F;2015&#x2F;06&#x2F;18&#x2F;product-hunt-the-startup-kingmaker-faces-charges-of-elitism&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;recode.net&#x2F;2015&#x2F;06&#x2F;18&#x2F;product-hunt-the-startup-kingma...</a> ). The response to that interview is essentially &quot;haters gonna hate,&quot; which means all attempts at offering suggestions to improve Product Hunt will be futile.<p>Yes, it still an echo chamber which I believe actually <i>hurts</i> the startup community because it incentives them to work on products which have zero value outside the echo chamber. It also incentives this bad behavior, and it has been spreading outside of Product Hunt which is why I&#x27;m upset by it.<p>If Product Hunt has enough community awareness such that they can tweet a GIF to every user who gets more than 100 points (seriously?!), then they have enough manpower to effectively punish and discourage vote manipulators.
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giarc将近 10 年前
Product Hunt has always felt &#x27;off&#x27; to me. It has always had a sense of a closed club open for public viewership. Even though they have opened it up a bit, it still feels the same.
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torbair将近 10 年前
It&#x27;s just another marketing platform, right? Nothing really &quot;crowdsourced&quot; about it. We dealt with similar voting ring issues when I worked on another industry forum, but people were really not subtle about it, even when it was explicitly discouraged. Sort of mindblowing, actually.
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valee将近 10 年前
This is a very clever article. I suggest further research into whether vote-rings are actually indicative of product teams and founders with strong networks who they are able to motivate to support them. It may be that up votes from voting rings are just as useful (or perhaps more) in determining the likelihood of success of a product.
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willtheperson将近 10 年前
I would enjoy seeing the same with Hacker News. It would be interesting to see how affiliation with Y Combinator influences the vote.
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snorkel将近 10 年前
This could also be used another approach to recommendation engine. The typical recommendation engine predicts that users who buy butter also buy eggs, but doesn&#x27;t make direct connections between the individual users. The process described in this article instead identifies individual users who act alike, and that can also be used to predict if user A buys an ostrich egg for no logical reason, then their &quot;collusion&quot; peers are also highly likely to buy an ostrich egg ... you can assume if they&#x27;re not colluding directly then they at least think alike if they have a very high collusion ratio.
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cam_pj将近 10 年前
I think there is a lot of frustration from some people with regards to PH and it’s understandable. But I don’t know if PH can be blamed for this. There has to be some kind of curation for something like this, and whether it’s a journalist (ex: TechCrunch), a community of people (PH), an editorial team (AppStore), as with all curation systems, there will always be people who feel it’s “unfair” (typically when their thing does not get selected).<p>I think what this fails to capture is that actually, it seems to me PH is a great proxy to the real world of startups. Yes it helps to be connected to influential people to be featured on PH. But the exact same thing is true for your startup in general. If you don’t know anybody, you’ll have a hard time getting noticed and finding investors. Your network and ability to connect to influential people can make or break your venture (I used to NOT think it was the case… I changed my mind based on my personal experience :-) ). I think that’s one of the very reasons Silicon Valley works much, much better than other places in the world: London, Paris, etc. They are a tightly connected community of makers, investors, journalists, influencers etc. It’s the whole echo-chamber thing and it’s absolutely fundamental.
AdamSC1将近 10 年前
Calling it a &quot;vote-ring&quot; is a bit of a logical leap, that would imply that its individuals purposefully upvoting one another&#x27;s products.<p>Yet with such a low amount of posts meeting this tests standards, and the fact that Product Hunt was specifically designed to focus on influencers it doesn&#x27;t seem unlikely that a small group of users would vote in similar patterns on either quality products, or ones shared by influencers they follow.<p>And, when you take into account that they share via email posts from influencers you follow it just adds to this behavior. The last few times I&#x27;ve been on Product Hunt was because I got an email that Hiten Shah and shared something. I follow him because we have similar interests. I opened the PH link, agreed it was a great find and upvoted it. It doesn&#x27;t make me a vote-ring.
splike将近 10 年前
Is it possible to run this algorithm efficiently for a large number of users? My intuition is telling me that the naive implementation its factorial time due to the problem of selecting combinations of users and posts to test.
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jtokoph将近 10 年前
&quot;We removed users’ names to protect the innocent. Instead, we’re showing random fruit names prepended to the real users’ ids.&quot;<p>Can&#x27;t someone just go lookup the IDs to get real names?
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