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Decentralization for the web

177 点作者 psiconaut将近 10 年前

12 条评论

Puts将近 10 年前
With all messaging apps that gets introduced these days, how come the only one that we all actually uses is email? Because it's decentralized! It used to be that we designed protocols for the internet, and now we instead build services on HTTP. Simply because you won't make money by writing RFCs that anyone can implement. But as we think all these new apps are moving us forward, the reality is if I really want to be sure someone can read my message, I must use a 40 year old protocol.
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padelt将近 10 年前
I find it so painful to see people rediscovering the same problems again and again. Not that I blame anyone individually, yet it holds us all back.<p>Way back then, when your online connection was flaky, expensive and ~5-50kbps, the first online-only apps where greeted with &quot;but.. but.. what if offline?&quot;<p>Next thing I know: The iPhone mandates internet access and steam rolls everything into online-first&#x2F;only mode for the average user. Business models based on that make sense, the industry follows. Privacy concerns are swept away. Control is taken away from the user to the service. Data governance&#x2F;ownership is on its head. Synchronization is hard, marketing is easier. Decentralization is written off as anarchic geek fantasies. Interoperability does not fit business needs. Open protocols become data islands.<p>Are we actually about to come back to &quot;but.. but.. what if offline?&quot;. I hope so. And how about reversing some of the problems we introduced earlier while we are at it? Privacy, decentralized services, interoperability.
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marknadal将近 10 年前
I am an author of a distributed database (<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;gunDB.io&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;gunDB.io&#x2F;</a>) and I thought this article was fairly good, but with one grievance. Hashes aren&#x27;t the ultimate solution.<p>Certainly hashes will make things a lot better, but a lot of people I know (including some of the people referenced in the article) are heralding them as the second coming of the web.<p>I disagree because they present more problems, ones that are harder for humans and easier for machines. First off, in order to find the data you practically speaking have to already have the data. Second, if you don&#x27;t have the data, then you have to know the hash, but how do you know the hash without having had the data OR trusting some authority for the hash? Now you are back to centralization.<p>Third, and most important from my perspective, a hash often times will point to outdated content because by the time you find it it might have changed (this of course is a good thing but can be problematic). I know they addressed this a little bit in the article but it is worth reiterating. The point is that it is hard to do synchronization on hashes and I would argue that sync is the more important problem and that is what I am trying to address in my open source database.
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jokoon将近 10 年前
It&#x27;s true that http and html are completely obsolete, the proof of that is how smartphone apps perform so much better than their web counterpart.<p>Honestly, I think there is a need to have solid p2p libraries, so to be able to use a DHT, NAT punchthrough or upnp more easily. P2P is immensely hard and has a lot of implications as much as it has usages. Isn&#x27;t there a p2p filesystem already ? I&#x27;m sure you could distribute public data in a decentralized manner.<p>I don&#x27;t know if libtorrent does it well, but since there are security issues implementing software that sends data packets directly, it would be greatly welcomed.<p>Also I don&#x27;t believe diaspora went far enough in the decentralization method. There should be no server at all.
LukeB42将近 10 年前
I had an idea for doing exactly this in 2011 when domain names were being seized for censorship.<p>So far this thing: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;LukeB42&#x2F;Uroko&#x2F;tree&#x2F;development" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;LukeB42&#x2F;Uroko&#x2F;tree&#x2F;development</a> implements a collaborative page editor. All it needs is a gevent-based implementation of Kademlia.<p>The difficult part is that you as a node in this overlay network may be requesting a document that only one other node has, and you have to trust that node. The other part is that different nodes will have cached the URL you&#x27;re requesting at different times. How do you prevent lying nodes being taken seriously?<p>As for sharing edits to documents, that&#x27;s probably best done as a premeditated thing with people you know, which is where merkle trees&#x27;ll be useful for verification.
EGreg将近 10 年前
I think centralization occurs because of economies of scale, like the talk says. But open source and protocols can decentralize things again. Security is probably the hardest thing to guarantee when all the source is out there. It takes quite a while to secure against all the obvious attacks, while attackers can see all the code. I&#x27;d trust gmail for security before I trust some small host which installed squirrelmail.<p>But having said that, I think that the reason a lot of stuff becomes centralized is because SOCIAL is not decentralized today. Bitcoin decentralized money but user accounts, profiles, connections etc are still done in a centralized way. That&#x27;s why GitHuv and is centralized even though git is not. Social and security - if there were solutions to these, many people would decentralize.<p>And by decentralized, I mean you still have a server hosting your stuff, but it would be your choice - it could be on a local network, and you wouldn&#x27;t even need the internet. You could be in the middle of rural Africa and your village couls run a social network, which sometimes syncs with the outside world but 99% of the communication wouldnt require it, wouldn&#x27;t require those drones fb launches.<p>I think our company Qbix has decentralized social, in that way. It&#x27;s not decentralized like bitcoin or mental poker, but honestly I don&#x27;t know why zero trust is such a big deal. Even bitcoin has most people host their wallet with others amd take risks.
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pjc50将近 10 年前
The primary problem is that the web is client-server and there are substantial inconvenience obstacles to hosting your own server, compared to using a cloud service.<p>Then there is what Schneier calls the security feudalism problem: maintaining a secure system is very hard, so people prefer to submit to a corporate feu lord which can provide them with security, paying with their privacy as a form of feu duty.
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ericson578将近 10 年前
I think the reason diaspora hasn&#x27;t caught on is because micropayments aren&#x27;t easy for the average user yet. If you want me to use bandwidth and keep a machine running in my house connected to some decentralized p2p facebook thingee, sure some might do it for free but if everyone who used your node tossed you 1&#x2F;10th of penny or something like that per use maybe it would have a lower barrier to entry.<p>Not to mention that it needs to be much easier to setup a server securely for the average person, and have a digital wallet to store their micropayments. (I love bitcoin but asking your average facebook user to setup a wallet securely is still too difficult)<p>This article correctly called out the advertising incentive of today&#x27;s big companies as not being in the average users&#x27; best interest. I wish it had also talked more about what kind of incentives that are missing to get people to become a part of p2p networks. Great article though, I like how the author tied in the slowing rate of discoveries&#x2F;progress into the problem.
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hackuser将近 10 年前
Would someone kindly summarize the author&#x27;s main idea?
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leoc将近 10 年前
And who was perhaps the first person to describe this concept, back in 1979? <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;lh3.googleusercontent.com&#x2F;-7RQK6LC3gdg&#x2F;VGFsmQBX0RI&#x2F;AAAAAAAAAWU&#x2F;H2xNrkuvCbw&#x2F;w640-h960-no&#x2F;tedmacro.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;lh3.googleusercontent.com&#x2F;-7RQK6LC3gdg&#x2F;VGFsmQBX0RI&#x2F;A...</a>
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mc808将近 10 年前
I believe this is the mentioned keynote (starts after around 12 minutes). <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=VRGB40srFE8" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=VRGB40srFE8</a>
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dreamfactory2将近 10 年前
I thought classical java from 10+ years ago had immutable namespaces